I'm a GM who has generally only run games for players who were relatively new, or not particularly concerned with character optimization. This game is going to be for a group of experienced, high-power players, and one of them has requested that it be run starting at a moderately high level like 12 (which means they'll have even more opportunity to craft killer PCs). If anyone has any tips for how I can adapt to a higher-powered group, they'd be much appreciated.
I do have a specific question as well. One of the players has said he wants to go gnome monk for the Bewildering Koan feat, which looks like this:
As a swift action, spend 1 point from your ki pool and make a Bluff check by asking a creature one of the impossible questions you ponder when meditating. If the creature fails its check, you choose whether it loses its next action or you gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make against that creature for 1 round.
Is this broken or is it just me? It looks like it says the monk gets to shut down the boss every round at the cost of a ki point and a swift action. It wouldn't be hard to get an outsized bluff check, high enough to automatically beat anyone without full ranks of Sense Motive. I'm tempted to ban or nerf the feat, possibly making it a standard action or restricting it to once per minute or something. But I'm cautious about limiting the players. I'm trying to balance my fear of stifling their creativity or fun with my fear that they'll wipe the floor with anything I throw at them. I thank you for your advice.
Honestly, if your running a game with big bads, they should probably have a pretty solid sense motive. Otherwise, wouldn't the sneak attackers just feint the crap out of them?
Swift action ability to cause the target to lose their next action (???) by way of a skill check that is easy to boost against a skill that isn't so often maxed out?
Yea, I'm not a huge fan of that.
...but if you apply the "lie is impossible" penalty, which is -20, it should be alright. And I see no reason to not apply that penalty, as the ability even states it's impossible.
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Do you have experience yourself with high-level play? Otherwise you're going to have a very hard time, coping with rule complexity on the one hand and players trying obscure rule tricks on the other hand (even the totally legal rule tricks may be brutal at high level). It's easy to overlook something important.
That feat does sound extremely powerful. Mostly, Paizo has shied away from stunlock-enabling powers. I also think that if you pore over the Bestiary, you'll meet lots of monsters with Common and no points in Sense Motive.
Remember, it's language dependent, and uses a limited resource.
Hardly powerful compared to what is out there.
Like what? Also, how much of a drawback is language dependency?
Do you have experience yourself with high-level play? Otherwise you're going to have a very hard time, coping with rule complexity on the one hand and players trying obscure rule tricks on the other hand (even the totally legal rule tricks may be brutal at high level). It's easy to overlook something important.
That feat does sound extremely powerful. Mostly, Paizo has shied away from stunlock-enabling powers. I also think that if you pore over the Bestiary, you'll meet lots of monsters with Common and no points in Sense Motive.
I've played high level characters myself, yeah. It's not an issue dealing with the rules I'm worried about, but with balance.
Litany of Eloquence gives the fascinated condition, which is extremely different from losing an action. Fascinated is automatically broken when any hostile actions are committed.
Although it is odd that if there's a potential threat, they get a new save, and that Litany offers no saves.
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Wow a feat with the power of a spell and just as poorly worded. What is an action? Move, standard, swift, free, immediate?
It doesn't even make sense, why one target? Why doesn't it effect the gnome saying/thinking it?
I would just interpret next action to mean move or standard , essentially the staggered condition. And maybe apply a penalty on additional attempts as the gnome is ignored.
In its defense non optimizers might have good clean fun with it.
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Compare it to Dazing Assault and Stunning Fist.
Are the requirements heavier?
* It's a lot easier to get than Dazing Assault (at level 1!), but monks get Stunning Fist for free (most of the time).
Is it cheaper or more expensive to use?
* It's way cheaper than Dazing Assault; no -5 to all your attacks.
* Stunning Fist has a limited number of uses.
* It's limited only by your Ki pool, but there are some tricks to keep your Ki pool filled. You can try it round after round on the same creature, or even multiple attempts in the same round on the same creature, if you really need to lock it down that round.
Is the effect more or less likely to succeed?
* Dazing Assault and Stunning Fist require a Fortitude saving throw, and the DC isn't super-hard.
* The Koan is opposed by Sense Motive, which many susceptible monsters just don't have. So against most susceptible monsters it's going to be pretty reliable.
* The Koan (on d20PFSRD) doesn't mention it's mind-affecting or language-dependent, but we'll assume that was an oversight. Dazing Assault actually isn't mind-affecting works on almost all creatures (though not undead, because they're immune to Fortitude problems that objects ignore).
Is the effect more or less severe?
* The loss of action is less severe than Stunning Fist (stunned creatures drop held items). It's roughly the same as Dazed.
* The extra damage adds additional versatility.
I think this is an absurd feat. The idea is nice, but it's pretty broken; this isn't the end of an expensive feat chain, this is something gnomes pick up at level 4-5 and then they go stun-locking enemies as a swift action.
Wow a feat with the power of a spell and just as poorly worded. What is an action? Move, standard, swift, free, immediate?
It doesn't even make sense, why one target? Why doesn't it effect the gnome saying/thinking it?
I would just interpret next action to mean move or standard , essentially the staggered condition. And maybe apply a penalty on additional attempts as the gnome is ignored.
In its defense non optimizers might have good clean fun with it.
Going by SKR's post here, next action means next turn. I presume the gnome saying it ponders koans like that all the time, and so is immune.
It looks like I'm not the only one who thinks this feat is a bit too much. I think the best solution is to give it the same restriction as daze, i.e. being affected by Bewildering Koan renders you immune to it for a minute.
Keep in mind that Bluff is not a class skill for monks, and CHA is their best stat to dump. A character that invests in the Bluff skill for their monk is giving up a lot of other potential bonuses. I don't think it's overpowered.
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It looks like I'm not the only one who thinks this feat is a bit too much. I think the best solution is to give it the same restriction as daze, i.e. being affected by Bewildering Koan renders you immune to it for a minute.
That seems like a fair solution; it's still a nifty power, but it can't stunlock anymore.