I just got the Kickstarter email with the pic of the Cloud Giantess Mini pic. Is it just me or does it look friggin awesome?
Its a great representation of the original artwork, but personally, I don't care for the pose.
Its a great representation of the original artwork, but personally, I don't care for the pose.
Neither am I, and I'd wish she were wearing more clothes, but based off the turnout for this model, I'm very eager to get my Nethyrmaul!
She's hawt!
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As soon as I saw this one in the stretch goals, it went into my "trade this for something useful" list...I don't really need a giant stripper (yes, I'm trading out the Sophie mini as well).
When will reaper send out the info on how to swap sophie?
Should be soon--they needed at least 2 weeks to compile everything and develop a system.
last I heard they are still waiting for some info from amazon and kickstarter.
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The thing that got me was the crazy detail on that hammer.
There has to be a story there, but damned if I know what. Like she swiped a carytid column or something.
Do kind of wish the pose was more....action-y. Hammer raised and ready to fall, war cry bellowed out, etc. On the flipside, there is an untapped market if the male cloud giant mini is similarly dressed and posed, so there's that.
I'll green stuff some extra clothes on her when I get her--I like to leave some things to the imagination. And I agree with Mikaze that from the perspective of using minis as battle miniatures, that I wish her pose was more combative.
But I'm okay with the pose in that it looks like she's leaning over to talk to someone of a smaller race. It would make for a great diorama.
Its almost like she is rubbing her knee because some tiny adventurer stabbed her there.
Maybe she's leaning forward so she can get a better look at the little adventurers who are begging for their lives. See the little notches in the lower right corner of the picture? Each of those represents 1/2" ... so a typical Medium adventurer barely reaches her knee. Imagine talking to a child that small... one that thought it had any chance of defeating you in a fight...
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I like it. It looks like she has the club ready to use, but is talking to the characters or NPCs before assuming she needs to fight. If I recall Cloud Giants are supposed to be good aligned so it would make sense she would see if diplomacy would work before attacking.
My mother and are planning to either play cards or roll dice to see who gets to paint her. We both think she is gorgeous.
My mother and are planning to either play cards or roll dice to see who gets to paint her. We both think she is gorgeous.
What? No, this requires an EPIC LEVEL SPELL WAR!! Complete with Epic kittens!
I'm still concerned on: How am I going to afford the paint to paint ALL these miniatures? And where am I going to start? Probably going to ask friends.
You realise she's wearing a Breastplate etc right?
The only thing exposed are her thighs.
Marthian, I've already got my gamers and my non-RPG playing girlfriend (she called the medusa and other snaky like things to paint) lined up to assist when the giant box of unpainted awesome shows up!
The concept art has her wearing a breastplate, but the actual model is a lot harder to tell. It looks like she's wearing a metal bra, with a chain holding up a loincloth. The concept art clearly shows her wearing a breastplate, so maybe that simply didn't transfer over well?
Nah shes wearing a BP still in the finished model. Its not AS easy to pick out in the photo of the finished model, but then I suspect thats because people see what they want to see :P
Its Roman style, you can see the top and bottom edges of it (the detailing), the vine motif, etc.
Nah shes wearing a BP still in the finished model. Its not AS easy to pick out in the photo of the finished model, but then I suspect thats because people see what they want to see :P
That's what I meant by not transferring over well. For me, the largest reason I didn't pick up on it, is the fact the breasplate has no raised edge over the flesh. Where the 'chain loincloth' is, if you look on either side, the flesh and 'breasplate' have the same surface edge. Plus, it looks like she has a navel on the breastplate.
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I still like the idea that she grabbed a carytid column to beat the crap out of a party.
the flesh and 'breasplate' have the same surface edge. Plus, it looks like she has a navel on the breastplate.
Looked different enough for me, theres a clear 'edge' of the BP with that patterned edging, and the clear scrollwork.
The navel is in perfect context too and was routinely found on Roman BP's, which she is wearing:
Like these.
OR very specifically:
Peple are simply seeing what they are choosing to see and not really looking.
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Shifty, I usually agree with your perspectives, but on this one I'm fairly certain we (the "this pose is meh" crowd) are really looking.
Let's consider Reaper--they're not exactly above a little "sex sales" marketing. Look at the entire Sophie line...
As for what I'm seeing that's so off-putting for the mini, it's both the pose and the adornments.
Being a standard roleplayer geek, I am of course well-versed in all culture and period armor as well as weapons (including the unstoppable claymore katana falcata) and in no ways resort to Google searches and Wikipedia for martial knowledge.* As such, I know of the Roman muscle cuirass. I'm not familiar with any example of said armor that includes a garter, and further know of no use for garters other than (1) holding up stockings, (2) looking sexy, and (3) hanging them from rear-view mirrors as some sort of red-neck trophy. She ain't wearing stockings...
Then to the pose. I have two 2-year olds that come up about to my knee. I often bend over or squat to talk with them or see something they are holding. When I bend over, I might put my hand on my knee, but my knee would be bent and my foot flat on the ground so I could actually stand in a comfortable manner. Try to stand like this giant's pose. Kick that right hip up as far as you can, extend your left leg, raise your left heel like you're wearing 6" stilletos. Yeah, that pose is not what I'd use to talk to my kids.
I like the test that was noted over in the LPJ thread seeking help with marketing to females. Put that burly, bearded man of a storm giant next to this one in the same outfit and pose. Does that work for you? Because for me it would look ridiculous.
For me, it's the usefulness of the mini that's in question. I don't need this one just like I don't need cyborg gorillas, power-armor space marines, or afro-sporting pistol guys. I'm not shouting from the rooftops that Reaper is evil and looking to corrupt our children with lewd images (I am, for instance, keeping the non-motorcycle-riding succubus and marilith as they both are useful minis). Luckily, I've already got a good female storm giant thanks to the D&D minis run several years back.
*For the literal crowd, yes, I'm joking.
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I'm not familiar with any example of said armor that includes a garter, and further know of no use for garters other than (1) holding up stockings, (2) looking sexy, and (3) hanging them from rear-view mirrors as some sort of red-neck trophy. She ain't wearing stockings...
Perhaps she's a member of the order of the garter, the highest order out there. Honi soit qui mal y pense!
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Sure Erian, if you don't like it then you don't like it, tastes can certainly differ. I'm cool with that. What I am uncool with is what I think amounts to people blowing it out of proportion (not you specifically), or even moreso, the moral conservatives plaguing the KS thread who have more in common with the Taliban than a community that is supposed to be about freedom of personal expression.
My argument is against the whole line of reasoning that 'she must be a stripper', or that shes almost/too naked. The only thing uncovered are her legs (or at least, are in that pose as the material has draped). The Torso has a BP on, the shoulders are covered, the arms are adorned... if she was only wearing a bikini then I'd concede the point.
She's a cloud giant, they get into that whole 'Olympian Goddess' schtick, personally I'm surprised she is wearing as much as she is. Togas are optional.
As to the pose, well no it's not that amazing, but that's neither here nor there for me... there's a lot of poses I see Mini's in that just look a bit odd.
As to the Sophie, I liked it from a fairly basic level, but am cashing my Sophies in for some cool Dragons, I think they'd look better on a shelf.
Will I get to use the Cloud Giant? Dunno, haven't seen one come up in around 30 years of play, who knows whats around the corner though.
I'm more scratching my head wondering what I am going to do with "cyborg gorillas, power-armor space marines, or afro-sporting pistol guys" - at least I can imagine that ONE DAY I might need a Cloud Giant!.
I'll have a look at the LPJ thread, it could be interesting. I teach Marketing (amongst other things) and I'd be curious what they have to say.
Everyone is talking about how they like the figure according to their personal tastes. Some will be more adamant than others that their opinion is correct. Such is gamer conversation.
But Shifty, I am concerned, however, to see a comparison between a mild social conservative view that a game figurine should be wearing more clothes to the institutionalized violence against women that the Taliban enforces. That's unfair to the posters not to mention diminishes and discounts the suffering women under the heel of the Taliban go through by saying what they endure is equal to a few gamers complaining about a model that isn't to their personal standards. Can we please try to avoid Godwin or any variation thereof in a conversation about game figurines?
Some will like the cloud giant, some won't. As I said, I'll use green stuff to have the model match my personal aesthetic. Others can trade figurines. Ultimately there's not much more to say.
As to the Chronoscope minis, I'm sure some day there's a chance many of you might find yourself in a modern day or supers game where they'll come in handy. And the cyborg gorilla could be a half-golem awakened gorilla obviously and be an awesome big bad in a fantasy game. Or they could be used as pieces in a board game, or just painted and put into an awesome looking diorama. Blaxploitation hero versus space marines, could be an epic piece.
That's unfair to the posters not to mention diminishes and discounts the suffering women under the heel of the Taliban go through by saying what they endure is equal to a few gamers complaining about a model that isn't to their personal standards. Can we please try to avoid Godwin or any variation thereof in a conversation about game figurines?
Some people say they don't like the mini, and thats fine. As Erian said, it isn't to his tastes. He just simply doesn't like it.
However I'm more than happy to be unfair to the number of guys (and it is guys by the way, as a majority, go have a look on the Reaper boards and look at the proportions) who openly denounce this mini around it being immodest, and break out their label box of nasty comments. It's not mild conservatism, its hardline moral conservatism that realises it has to play nice and stay on a bit of a leash.
At no point is it ok for guys to sit there and make comments degrading how a woman expresses herself, it's unacceptable. Terms like 'Stripper' are just dogwhistle code for 'slut' or 'whore'. Imagine a woman reading those posts who might actually dress like or identify with that mini, how is she to feel? 'Stripper', 'cheesecake', 'submissive slut' 'her club looks phallic near her hand' - are those the nice expressions of mild social conservatism? Oh but they get the double whammy of then accusing others of being sexist. Nice.
What it's distasteful because she has an exposed thigh? How much flesh is she 'allowed' to show before it meets acceptance? Just her ankles? or is that too far as well?
I suppose you are right though, the comparison with the Taliban is probably a little unfair. The Taliban at least have a little honesty.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Warning OT Politics derailment,
Amusingly I find a lot of guys who complain about the scantly clad women are the "womyn's rights" types who are arguing it demeans women, not the SoCons (of which I am one).
Though if it makes Shifty feel better to think of me as a 'Taliban' he can send me his cloud giantess and I'll throw acid in its face.
More on topic, wasn't it a bit in the giant types for a while that the men were brutes and the women were hotties? I remember that, but I don't remember if it was an AD&D or a 3e thing.
Actually, painting one up like Storm sounds better and better to me.
Edit: I know 6 'stripers' (well, now ex-strippers) 4 of which are good people, one trying to be a good person, and one who isn't. I don't equate 'stripper' with 'slut' or hold them in any contempt.
Telemarketers otoh.
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Some people are too Baal-danged sensitive.
Yeah, generally Social Conservative here as well and I (hopefully) have made it clear my position is based entirely on usefulness as a game piece. I've got no problem with minis/illustrations that show skin, so long as it's actually appropriate to the topic and has an in-game purpose. After 25 years of gaming, I know what I'll actually use (thus the auto-trade for several of these). Ironically, Reaper actually has a "prostitue" mini in the set (I believe they labelled it "Strumpet") and I plan to keep that one since a non-fiendish seductress might actually be useful in a game. I'm keeping the stereo-typical buxom barmaid as well. I don't frequent the Reaper forums much. Are people going nuts about those, or the fiends?
Well to be "fair" to those in the "don't like" camp, we don't actually get a choice to not buy this one since it's in the package deal (at least for us Vampire level folks). Now, I'm only paying like $0.44 for this one and it's readily tradeable so I'm not complaining that much...
Shifty, I've seen the comments about this giant over at Kickstarter, and I haven't been to the Reaper forums, but I'm not using any derogatory terms here when describing her. I simply don't like her pose, or what I thought was, her clothes. I'm not a big fan of the 'chain mail bikini' minis, and when I first saw this one, I thought she was wearing a metal bra with a loincloth and that's it. Now that I've taken a closer look, I can see she's wearing a Breastplate, and that improves my impression of the model.
I understand you're not happy with the comments people are making elsewhere, but if you read the comments in this thread, we're not doing that here. Most of us are saying the like the mini, which I do, I just have some things I dislike about it. We're not attacking the Reaper Artists for being sexist pigs, nor are we being the self-righteous pricks that frequent other places. It's been a very lighthearted thread with people commenting on the figurine.
But I'm still not a fan of the pose, nor am I a fan of the garter belt. From my own point of view, I dislike the fact she's not really wearing anything on her legs. It annoys me that she'd protecting her chest and stomach, but leave her legs (and therefore, her arteries) wide open to assault. I don't like 'impractical' figurines, and I don't buy them either.
There are, of course, going to be exceptions because of the Vampire Pledge, but that's the exception. All of the minis I have now wear, mostly, full armor, or are dressed in a way that makes sense to protect themselves. I don't have a barbarian running around in a fur diaper with a sword, I don't have female warriors in chain bikinis, I don't buy wizards/sorcerers wearing revealing outfits. I buy people that have belts with pouches and backpacks with tankards strapped on. They're wearing armor, and have a weapon. The casters are wearing full clothes, and look like they could easily survive in the wilderness.
That's what I like, and I don't particularly like parts of this mini that much. I still think it looks 'friggin awesome' though. Even if I could trade it out (I live in Alaska, hard to trade here), I probably wouldn't. Do I dislike the pose? Yes. Do I wish she was wearing more on her legs? Yes. Is that going to stop me from appreciating the mini? Not at all.
@erian_7 It wasn't till your third post in this thread that I really understood your viewpoint. Your first post in this thread referred to the Giantess as a 'giant stripper' and didn't mention anything about the pose.
Since you are getting the mini for free with vampire level, you could add your own leg armor pieces with "green stuff" or other modelling materials, it probably wouldn't be too hard.
I understand you're not happy with the comments people are making elsewhere, but if you read the comments in this thread, we're not doing that here.
I thought my comment and attribution to "the moral conservatives plaguing the KS thread" had already established that?
I don't have a barbarian running around in a fur diaper with a sword, I don't have female warriors in chain bikinis.
Why? It's how quite a number of the worlds warriors got around (except for the chain bikini of course)
I don't have a barbarian running around in a fur diaper with a sword, I don't have female warriors in chain bikinis.Why? It's how quite a number of the worlds warriors got around (except for the chain bikini of course)
Because it's not practical. When I picture a Barbarian, I picture a guy decked out in leather and furs, with metal armor on beneath it. He wears the leather and furs for warmth and protection from the elements. He's not trucking through the forest in a fur diaper, because he'd freeze to death.
Sure, a guy could wear something like that living in the deserts of Ketapesh, but not if he actually wanted to survive. Fighting in a gladitorial match? Sure. Working as muscle in some Pasha's palace? Sure. Hiking across the dunes, dealing with giant scorpions and marauding elementals? No, not practical.
I like my figurines to be believable. I want them to look like they could actually exist, to actually be able to live off the stuff they have. I love the minis that have backpacks with all kinds of knick-knacks and doo-dads, because they look prepared.
This is one of my favorite figurines, because he looks like someone capable of surviving.
This is the kind of mini I won't buy because it's impractical, and dumb, in my own opinion.
Sure, a guy could wear something like that living in the deserts of Ketapesh, but not if he actually wanted to survive.
My nephews people disagree with you..
My neighbours would disagree with you too..
Suppose you are just used to things being a certain way.
Reckon that Barbarian mini all of a sudden looks legit.
Ok, I'm sorry, but wearing nothing but a fur pair of underwear in a desert is a VERY bad idea. Non of your pictures show that happening. You absolutely DO NOT want the sun to be beating down on your skin unless you have a readily available water supply. Why? Because the burning of your skin dehydrates you and will lead to your death.
Why do you think it is for thousands of years, people living in the desert wear clothes from head to toe? Part of it is to shield themselves from the unforgiving sun, the other is to shield themselves from the biting winds and sandstorms.
The pictures you linked, with the exception of the older guy with spear and shield, all show them living in a jungle or rainforest area. Neither of which have are prone to extreme temperature conditions.
The regions of the world my characters play in are more similar to Germany, Switzerland, England, Canada, Alaska etc.
Why? Because that's the kind of climate I live in. I can't paint a story about people living in the desert, because I don't live in the desert. I have never lived in the desert, nor do I ever plan on living in the desert. I don't know how characters survive there, barring basic reading to satisfy my curiosity about different subjects.
If you live in a rainforest, where the temperature is pretty much the same year round. Yeah, sure, you can get by on with a fur diaper.
But if you live in a desert, you need to wear clothes to protect yourself from the environment. If you live in the northern parts of the world, you need to wear clothes to protect yourself from the environment.
I don't understand why you're getting so uppity at me because I don't like a type of miniature. That's my owned damned personal preference, and you really have no right to sit there and try and shove your personal beliefs down my throat like you're some almighty god.
I don't like naked barbarians.
I don't like chain mail bikinis.
I don't like useless armor on minis.
I don't like impractical designs for characters.
If you don't like that, then I really don't give a damn. My very first post in this stupid thread was about how I thought the Giantess mini was, and I quote, "friggin awesome" while my second post was that I didn't much care for the pose, and that I wish she had more clothes.
That's it.
I'm not those pricks over at the Kickstarter page ranting about women's rights, or the debauchery and perversions of the Reaper Sculptures. I'm not calling her a slut, or a whore, or a stripper. I don't know why you're getting pissy with me but frankly, it's really annoying.
I like what I like and nothing you say or do is going to change that one bit.
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One thing I think that needs to be made clear is that just because someone says "I prefer minis this way" and you like them another is not a judgment of you or your preferences, it's just someone stating theirs. This happens a LOT on this board particularly, I've noticed. One person says, "Wow, I'd prefer that picture if she was wearing a shirt," and another person's response is basically, between the lines, "STOP JUDGING ME!" No one's judging. Just saying what they like and what they don't. It's not about you.
And for the record, I have it on good authority that scantily clad women aren't going away anytime soon (they better not, you can pry my Xena desktop wallpaper from my cold dead hands!).
And Shifty, if you've got a problem with what folks are saying in the Kickstarter boards, then your problem belongs on the Kickstarter boards. Last thing we need is another message board's baggage, or a fight started essentially by complete strangers who have nothing to do with this community.
When I picture a Barbarian, I picture Conan.
I like what I like and nothing you say or do is going to change that one bit.So what makes you think you can change Shifty?
I prefer The Dying Gaul; he's wearing even less than Conan!
When I picture a Barbarian, I picture Conan.
I like what I like and nothing you say or do is going to change that one bit.So what makes you think you can change Shifty?
I'm not trying to change Shfity. I stated what I liked, and what I didn't. I even gave an example of a mini I liked, and one I don't like. I explained why I dislike something, and why I liked others.
Shifty decided that I needed to be proven wrong with some pictures and snarky comments.
Shifty has repeatedly commented about how people in other forums are making bad comments about this mini. If you go tot he Kickstarter email for this mini, and just glance through the comments, you'll see the drivel that's being spewed from people's keyboards.
This whole thread was supposed to be about how cool the figurine was, and if other people thought the same way. Just about everyone agreed with me. None of us were badmouthing Reaper, or coming off as self-righteous pricks. But Shifty kept talking about other people, saying other things that had nothing to do with how this thread was going.
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And Shifty, if you've got a problem with what folks are saying in the Kickstarter boards, then your problem belongs on the Kickstarter boards.
Actually, I stated I had an issue, and why I had that issue - simlpy put that Erian and I were clarifying what lines were being drawn, and simply put, ensuring that what I was concerned COULD have been happening here wasn't. Which it wasn't, and that was the end of it. Until you decided to engage in dialogue about it. Which, all things being fair, entitled me to a right of reply - up until that point the conversation was over and we had moved on.
Shifty decided that I needed to be proven wrong with some pictures and snarky comments.
Actually I asked what was wrong with the shirtless Barbarian, notionally because I'm rather used to seeing people trucking about like that 'irl', and your response was it was "Because it's not practical", "He's not trucking through the forest in a fur diaper, because he'd freeze to death", "Sure, a guy could wear something like that living in the deserts of Ketapesh, but not if he actually wanted to survive" - but once again - "because it's impractical, and dumb, in my own opinion
Well I thought it would be worth challenging that perspective, not from a mini's standpoint, but from a broader conversation on what warriors (or even Barbarians) might be dressed in under differing environmental circumstances.
Now that might not fit in your particular game, hence my comment about you being used to things a certain way, but the point is the style is very practical and certainly not 'dumb'.
The picture of the nice Aboriginal man standing on a rock, yep, thats the edge of the desert and thats the way they ran around, I dunno how they do it either - I found that desert heartland horrible to endure.
The guys in PNG, I'd say thats an environmental extreme (look up the WWII Kokoda campaign and the conditions) - your well decked out warrior will die just walking around in his armour because the conditions will kill him. Ditto for some of the south pacific. The NZ/Fiji areas are a bit better, and as long as you stayed out of the Summer heat you could wear armour, and as long as it wasn't monsoonal where so much armour would get you bogged in.
It translates to making such a mini appropriate in the Mwangi, in Qadira, etc. There are a few obvious places where such a shirtless barbarian would make perfect sense.
If it's not to your taste then it isn't, but lets not get into saying its unrealistic or 'dumb', because theres millenia of cultrual precedent that says it isn't.
Reaper Miniatures
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It is a breastplate. She's not naked. It's meant to evoke Grecian imagery, as it traditional with Cloud Giants. Cloud giants are traditionally in Grecian inspired attire, are beautiful (especially compared to their more brutish Giant cousins) and are not automatically hostile to humans. Thus, she's meant to be beautiful, have grecian-influenced style of dress, and a non-combat pose.
It's not a political statement, or an attempt to dehumanize anybody. It's an attempt to create a model that fits the descriptions found in classic RPG literature.