Assuming no Class Levels, I would put an Awakened critter\plant as not that different from an animated object or Animal. Perhaps a +1 because of the increased saves, though an awakened tree does not have the mental immunities that an animated objected has, so that might be a bit of a wash.
Adding Class levels will clearly add from there.
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Assuming no Class Levels, I would put an Awakened critter\plant as not that different from an animated object or Animal. Perhaps a +1 because of the increased saves, though an awakened tree does not have the mental immunities that an animated objected has, so that might be a bit of a wash.
Adding Class levels will clearly add from there.
Doesn't it get those from the Plant type?
Ascelaphus -- good point about the plant type. Brain-cramped on that one.
Morius -- I didn't catch the +2 HD thing. that's a good point. a +1 would definitely be appropriate, I would think.
Simlpe anwser advance the moster the check it with table 1-1 in Beastiry 1 page 291. Then you make up your own mind.
+1 CR for animals seems appropriate. Trees and other animated flora would have the same CR as an animated object of its size I'd imagine.
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As an animated object... it seems all nice and clear, until you bump in the issue that Awakened trees have inteligence score, thus they have skill and feats... Now, tell me, how a Sequoia sempervirens with Power Attack and cleave equals to an noninteligent animated object?
As an animated object... it seems all nice and clear, until you bump in the issue that Awakened trees have inteligence score, thus they have skill and feats... Now, tell me, how a Sequoia sempervirens with Power Attack and cleave equals to an noninteligent animated object?
Yes, I can see how that could be problematic...
...if it were at all true. Awakened plants don't gain feats or skills. Nothing in the spell comes close to indicating such a thing occurs.
To assume otherwise is to put Awaken on the level of the Leadership feat. Need a minion with a given ability? *poof* Done.
Yeah, whatever.
As an animated object... it seems all nice and clear, until you bump in the issue that Awakened trees have inteligence score, thus they have skill and feats... Now, tell me, how a Sequoia sempervirens with Power Attack and cleave equals to an noninteligent animated object?Yes, I can see how that could be problematic...
...if it were at all true. Awakened plants don't gain feats or skills. Nothing in the spell comes close to indicating such a thing occurs.
To assume otherwise is to put Awaken on the level of the Leadership feat. Need a minion with a given ability? *poof* Done.
Yeah, whatever.
Well according to http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/awaken the following was published as an FAQ...
If you cast awaken, an animal's type changes to magical beast. Do you change its HD to d10s, increase its BAB to that of a magical beast, and gain other features of the magical beast type? It also gains two Hit Dice; are these d8s or d10s? If the animal was trained to wear barding, does it retain this ability once it is awakened? If the animal wasn't trained to wear barding, how can the awakened creature learn how to wear armor?
Only the animal's type changes to "magical beast"--it doesn't gain all the mathematical benefits for this type change (think of it as a "quick rules" version of adding a template to a creature).
The 2 HD it gains are d8s.
An animal trained to wear barding can continue to do so without penalty once it is awakened. Once it's awakened, it can either spend a feat on armor proficiency or take class levels in a class that grants armor proficiency, just like any intelligent creature.
Bolded for emphasis. Also, from the wording, an awakened creature gets a number of feats based on his hit dice like any other intelligent creature. I would also assume (based on the intelligent creature line) that the awakened subject gets skill ranks as well.
As for making a free cohort, it's not quite so easy. Awaken costs 2,000 gold pieces worth of material components and is ONLY on the Druid's spell list, so it can't effectively be used by anyone else and you can only have 1 awoken creature in your "service" at a time, and even then the wording of it make it clear that the actions of an awoken creature are subject to DM discretion.
By 9th level (when this spell is available), spending 2K gold to acquire the service of an animal or plant seems like a fair investment. since it doesn't blindly serve you. You could easily spend that same 2K gold to acquire a decent sized militia for a few weeks.
Great, so you've shown that awakened animals (creatures known to already have feats) gain an extra feat for their increased hit dice...
...using an entirely unofficial 3rd party web site as your only source. A 3rd party site that is not only known for making assumptions (and therefore mistakes) from time to time, but doesn't even have a working source link for this issue in particular.
Even if that holds to be true (I personally believe that it is), there is still no hard evidence whatsoever that awakened plants gain any skill ranks or feats.
Yes, I realize the link is broken and it's not completely official, but I'm inclined (also) to believe that they're quoting a legitimate source.
As far as I see it, you're adding racial hit dice, which should be treated exactly as the monster manual details adding those hit dice (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterAdvancement.html) That is how I would do it, anyways. Maybe not EXACTLY what the rules say (RAW), but the FAQ response indicates to me that this was the intention (RAI) of the spell.
Your interpretation is not without merrit. Nevertheless, I'm still hesitant to believe one spell could essentially give my character access to any feat or skill in the game.
I can understand that when specifics are not written explicitly in the rules, people are often hesitant to go too far with things. However, it is a 5th level spell for Druids only. At 9th level, most Druids have an animal companion who has access to the same things an awakened plant or creature would have access to. Druids who don't have an animal companion could use this to a similar effect of the animal companion, but it's still not the same as it's not completely loyal to you in the same way an animal companion is and it takes 9 levels to get.
All in all, I can understand the hesitation, but I would rule that it gets the 2 HD and all associated advancements, but if I had a PC who was pushing them against their will or putting them into very dangerous situations often, then I would probably have the awakened animal try to resist forcing diplomacy checks, probably with a +4 bonus for the Druid, but it's a check none-the-less.
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If Awaken does not give skill ranks and feats to a tree, being the tree now an inteligent creature, it is the sole exception in all the Pathfinder system.
First, everyone knows that are many intelligent plant creatures in the game (one of the most famous, the Treant, is). Bu, as an animated Construct, a Awakened Tree is no plant (odd, isn't it?)
As for an previously uninteligent creature that gains intelligence, we have a few examples, like the Wax Golem, the Flesh Golem and - that's is for last because it is also an animated object - the Machine Soldier.
Sentient Wax Golem is from an AP (Ashes at Dawn), Sentient Flesh Golem is from Pathfinder Chronicles Classic Horror Revisited and the Machine Soldier is from Dungeons of Golarion.
You can argue that all my examples can't be taken by players, apart from the Machine Soldier (that i don't know if it can be constructed by a player character with the Craft Construct feat), both the Wax golem and the Flesh golem are freed from it's creator control when they gain sentience. Even then, the sources are from "peripherals" not overly tested as the Hardcover books.
But we have another example of unintelligent creature that, if it becomes intelligent, it gains skill and feats. And it is from Ultimate Magic, that is the Druid Vermin Companion.
Source: Ultimate Magic
Vermin companions follow the same rules as animal companions, advancing their Hit Dice and other abilities per Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics. Vermin companions can be trained as if they were animals using the Handle Animal skill.
Mindless: Vermin companions have no Intelligence score and possess the mindless trait. In spite of this, vermin companions may learn one trick, plus additional bonus tricks as noted on Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics. If a vermin animal companion gains an ability score increase (at 4 Hit Dice, 8 Hit Dice, and so on), the druid can apply this increase to the companion's Intelligence, changing it from — to 1, at which point the companion loses the mindless quality and is able to know up to 3 tricks per point of Intelligence, plus the additional bonus tricks, as per Handle Animal. Vermin companions have no skill points or feats as long as they have the mindless quality.
At level 4, and entirely for free, the druid can raise it's vermin companion intelligence to 1 an it get skills and feats (losing the mindless trait, what is obvious). A Ranger, at 7 level can do the same (cost free). A Druid, at 9º level can do this spending 2000 gold to gain a potentially capricious, unreliable and fickle -ally- not servant.
Apart for that (but that is a minor concern), Awakened animals get acess to more sofisticated feats (thing they didnt get with intelligence score lower than 3).
That being explained, i think awakened creatures deserves a better explanation rules-wise so that we can use them properly as antagonist and npcs in our games.