Grapple Question (specifically in regards to Feral Gnasher)


Rules Questions


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First of all, please accept my apology if this has been answered before and I've simply missed it.

A scenario was presented to me that seems to make LOGICAL sense, but I would like some clarification in regards to rules. If a Feral Gnasher attacks with its bite and latches on successfully to a target, can it make attacks with its hands/weapons while latched? While deciding whether to try out this class variant I had a person paint a very vivid picture of a goblin with an oversized head latching onto the back of a target, then wailing away with a pair of daggers while the target scrambled to get rid of their assailant.

The logic used is that it is an entirely different weapon (the teeth) being used to grapple with that doesn't have direct impact on the use of the other weapons (hands/daggers). Aside from being rather hilarious to imagine, I am curious enough about it that I had to ask.


Clarification: Can the Feral Gnasher make additional attacks with his arms/legs while grappling with his/her teeth?

(It helps when I actually point out what I want to know, doesn't it?)


Read up on the Grapple rules ;) It has everything you need.

Liberty's Edge

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: No, mostly.

Within the last few months, the grapple rules have been altered to drastically favor the victim. As the grappler, you are not allowed to full attack, perform special maneuvers, or do anything other than the options presented in the combat section.


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Feral wrote:

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: No, mostly.

Within the last few months, the grapple rules have been altered to drastically favor the victim. As the grappler, you are not allowed to full attack, perform special maneuvers, or do anything other than the options presented in the combat section.

Thanks guys. I know it was a dumb question. I had already reviewed the rules around grapple (and had come to the same conclusion as above), discussed it with some people who argued that the rules had changed, and figured I'd come to the source for a definitive answer rather than spend half of my next session trying to play rules lawyer/advocate. I think they misunderstood the interpretations they read (no sources cited, mind you) to mean the opposite of Feral's answer.

(In light of this I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm going to be dealing with a Firebomber now... XD )


Wait one minute, are you saying you cannot use a dagger when grappling?

Go read the rules again, if you succeed at the bite attack you get a free grapple attempt. At that point you choose to make a normal grapple (at -4 for not having 2 hands free RAW) or at a -20 to not be considered "grappled." If you choose the first action, you are grappled and when you make a successful grapple check you have the ability to deal damage with a light one handed weapon (dagger would fit the description). If you choose the -20 you aren't grappled and can maintain the grapple as a standard action the following round (and if so use a weapon that uses both hands IIRC due to Grab).

You couldn't do a full round attack, but you most definitely could be bite someone to initiate the grapple and stab them once a round as you continue to grapple.

Liberty's Edge

Most people don't consider making a single attack per round for the entirety of a character's career terribly viable.

Especially a little goblin.


Depends on the attack.


If you had greater grapple, you could make that check as a move action and then, because you dont have the grappled condition, swing away with your weapon (possibly vital strike to get a bit more damage). I have to ask tho, in the grapple rules under damage:

Grapple Damage wrote:
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

It says nothing on how you do the attack, just that you do damage equal to your unarmed strike, do you add str modifiers to this? how about your BAB and other bonuses? Power attack? What if the weapon was enchanted?

Stikk Rokk wrote:
(In light of this I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm going to be dealing with a Firebomber now... XD )

Have fun! Literally... That thing is scary. Here is a post that I made earlier about one of those....

GoboHord wrote:
Tels wrote:

You know, that really sparks a thought. A Trobllin would be a horrifying opponent in Pathfinder!

I'm thinking like a medium sized creature that is just absolutely chaotic. It regenerates, but only when it's in fire. So it has a habit of carrying lots of flameable material and easy fire starters (like a keg of oil and an alchemist fire) and every time it needs to fire, it burns the area down. Even when not fighting, they love starting fires and basking in the purity of the flame.

Thats the goblin....

Absolutely chaotic
ate troll innards, because it smelled funny, now infinitely regenerates
Has a nasty habit of carrying around arisol cans, lighters, torches, flamethrowers, necklaces of fireballs, bombs, and ingesting detonation extracts.
When bored, been known to set fruit stalls on fire. Also known to set houses, horses, mayors, solders, baracks and dragons on fire
Loves to use his trusty rocket propelled inferno bombs to blow up town squares just because he can
Turns into a friggen fire elemental permanently!
He makes people explode by touching them!!! Go on, give the little tyke a hug!
When you finally kill the little bugger, he goes supernova and takes out the entire BBEGs lair, bedchambers, bath, and kitchen as well as the rest of the party then rises from the ashes true phoenix style!
Fear the goblin, he is everything you feared and more!
And he never sleeps! Never! Constant Vigilance! HE WILL COME!

Ya goblin alchemists are sick... So much they can do, so much they can make explode, so much they can wreak a perfectly planned social event... "Hey guys! Watch this!!!!"

Of the above, the hardest thing to create would be the arisol can...
Want someone who can literally rip the skin off your body, then make you explode in a shower of gore? How about after when he wears your skin as a hat? Love the goblins!


Agreed with the greater grapple, the vital strike would definitely allow for some decent damage in this situation (and this was kinda what I was hinting at with my "depends on the attack").

The grapple check is how you succeed on making the attack, it would follow with a normal non crit modified damage roll with the appropriate weapon.


Nice - thanks again for the clarification.

I wasn't saying NO attack...but it sure did read that way. I meant that she couldn't do as originally planned - clamp down and wail away without abandon.

This is extremely useful even though she decided she'd rather toss napalm all over the place. Now I've got some good advice and some suggested reading for a monk who thinks he wants to hug everything to death.

The Exchange

Skylancer4 wrote:

Wait one minute, are you saying you cannot use a dagger when grappling?

Go read the rules again, if you succeed at the bite attack you get a free grapple attempt. At that point you choose to make a normal grapple (at -4 for not having 2 hands free RAW) or at a -20 to not be considered "grappled." If you choose the first action, you are grappled and when you make a successful grapple check you have the ability to deal damage with a light one handed weapon (dagger would fit the description). If you choose the -20 you aren't grappled and can maintain the grapple as a standard action the following round (and if so use a weapon that uses both hands IIRC due to Grab).

You couldn't do a full round attack, but you most definitely could be bite someone to initiate the grapple and stab them once a round as you continue to grapple.

keep in mind that even though you get -4 for not having two hands free (or mebbe you dont if you actually have yer hands free) you get a +4 on grapple attempts from the grab ability.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

My suggestion is at the beginning of your round you release the target as a free action, full attack, and if you manage to land a bite make the free grapple attempt. This way you get a full attack every round and if you land a bit you have a good chance of them being grappled on their turn.

The downside to that is if you attack with daggers and the bite attack, the bite is at -5 since natural weapons become secondary when you attack with manufactured weapons. I'm not sure if the grapple would be at -5, I suspect it would be.

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