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To Venture Captain Eric Brittain, et al., in Absolom on this 1st day of Rova, 4712;
Greetings and salutations. I am writing you this writ to ask for your guidance on an unusual purchase I will be making, a Riding Dire Bat.
This creature is quite large and has an usual appetite for "non-traditional feed." Can the Society arrange for special stables for such creatures between missions? Are there any special arrangements that will need to be made to accommodate such a large creature during missions?
Your guidance on this matter would be appreciated.
May Magdh's foresight and wisdom guide your way.
Signed Merimax the Fortuneteller
P.S. Henry very much enjoyed that large grub you fed him the last time we were in Absolom.
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That's one heck of a batmobile.
In any case, so far as I can tell from the additional resources, the dire bat, riding is legal, as it is a large creature, and the additional resources states.
All items from Chapter 2 are legal for play except as noted below.
Equipment: Only creatures of the animal type of size Large and smaller may be purchased. No eggs are legal for play. Animal-related gear on pages 80–86 is available for purchase. Transports on pages 86–87 are not available for purchase. All alchemical remedies, alchemical tools, alchemical weapons, clothing, entertainment items, and food and drink are legal for play.
Additionally, I see nothing in the text you quoted or the bestiary entry about non-traditional feed, simply the line "A dire bat prefers feeding on livestock and herd animals." Now, if you wanted to feed it what it prefers, that could get expensive, as livestock can get expensive after awhile.
Goats are 6 gp.
Pigs are 10 gp.
Light horses are 75 gp.
Ponies are 30 gp.
All of the above could be considered livestock, however the other animals I would consider livestock, namely cows, have no purchase price. Additionally, the line says prefers, implying that the dire bat would eat things beyond livestock or herd animals.
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Looking over vanities, I found this in the society field guide.
Squire (4 PP): This attendant assists you with handling
your mount while you are indoors or otherwise unmounted,
and provides assistance with donning and removing
armor when not in battle. She may have ambitions of one
day following in your footsteps, but currently receives
satisfaction simply knowing that she aids you in your
adventures. With a squire, you need not worry about
purchasing or paying for a mount’s food or stabling.
It may be worth it to get a squire instead of paying for the cows that your bat would eat.
But, you must call your squire Robin.
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Looking over vanities, I found this in the society field guide.
Squire (4 PP): This attendant assists you with handling
your mount while you are indoors or otherwise unmounted,
and provides assistance with donning and removing
armor when not in battle. She may have ambitions of one
day following in your footsteps, but currently receives
satisfaction simply knowing that she aids you in your
adventures. With a squire, you need not worry about
purchasing or paying for a mount’s food or stabling.It may be worth it to get a squire instead of paying for the cows that your bat would eat.
But, you must call your squire Robin.
I agree with everything in this post. Especially the Robin part.
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Wait, are you serious? You mean players are actually allowed to purchase a flying mount?
For 450 GP, I can get a Combat Trained Dire Bat, which I can /fly around on/ during the scenario, and in battle (assuming I make the appropriate Handle Animal and Ride checks of course).
Please someone confirm this for me. Otherwise, I am totally making a character dedicated to this concept.
EDIT: I'm quite serious about this. If Combat Trained Dire Bats are legal for purchase with the requisite Fame Points (presumably 5), then I honestly will almost always have characters that will take advantage of these creatures as a mount, and fly around with them in every scenario. And I suspect that many other players would, too. Before I go and start building this character, I really do want a confirmation from the people above that they are OK with all players having easy access to flight right at level 2. If that's their intention, then I'll gladly roll with it. Otherwise, I don't want to build up this character, only to have it cut down when it's realized that Dire Bats gum up PFS and aren't allowed.
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Perhaps we should "drop everything" and "suspend" trading in them?Well, you can certainly not expect the prices to crash anytime soon. ;)I can see the price Rings of Feather Fall going up....
(there has to be a joke in there somewhere, but it's sorta-monday, and my brain is not fully futional yet...)
We have to be careful with that since while the market is slow right now, it could pick up speed at any time. I'd say keep your resources on hand to protect yourself from the gravity of the situation.
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Keep in mind that you'll need to make Ride checks to control this mount in combat.
Also, it only has a Strength of 17, so you're looking at the following limitations:
Over 192 lbs: Fly speed 30' & -3 check penalty (to Fly skill, among others)
Over 246 lbs: Fly speed 30' & -6 check penalty
Over 520 lbs: Cannot fly.
Base speed is 40' (Good). Base Fly skill is +9. After encumbrance penalties that drops to +6 or +3.
With an AC of 14 and 22 HP, you're going to be going through a lot of these.
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None of those mean much to a caster with a wand of mage armor. By the time it becomes a problem, most caster's won't need a mount to fly. Even my magus is under 170 with gear. (150lbs base +17lbs gear, including his clothing.)
At least, not unless the DM gets pissy and targets the bat with everything. GM's focus firing will kill most low level character pretty quickly though. (Most pure casters won't have an 18 AC and 22 HP until just before gaining 3rd level spells.)
Ride checks to control the mount are only necessary if the mount is not combat trained. Guiding with the knees and staying in the saddle when hit are both DC 5. Even a modest investment of 1 point will suffice if a class skill or the rider has a decent dexterity.
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It is an interesting concept, and I seriously considered taking a flying mount when I built my gnome sorcerer.
In the end, I went with my frog though. There are just too many issues moving around with a flying mount indoors and you will never be able to hover reliably at low level, even with an animal companion. At higher level, I'll just cast fly on George.
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To Venture Captain Eric Brittain, et al., in Absolom on this 7th day of Rova, 4712;
Greetings and salutations. So it has come to my attention that my request for special stabling of my Riding Dire Bat has been denied.
I see that the Society is unwilling to facilitate the stabling requirements for such a large subterranean beast between and during missions. While I regret the decision I will continue to dutifully fulfill what is expected of me.
May Magdh's foresight and wisdom guide your way.
Signed Merimax the Fortuneteller
P.S. I foresaw this coming.
I've seen a Pathfinder riding one of these on a mission. Don't care for it myself.
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... So I tried out a character with a Dire Bat mount today. It was absolutely stupid. While I do believe at higher levels, all players should have access to flying, at level 1 it's totally ridiculous. Scenarios were not built in mind with flying characters. Add to this the fact that Casters can more or less ride these without much issue (failing the DC 5 Ride Check to guide your mount just deprives you of one hand, and not an action) and you have a very dumb situation on your hands, right away. I foresee a future where all players have these monsters as Mounts.
I really want these things banned... I will still continue to use it, simply because it makes sense (there's basically no downsides to having this bat), and provides excellent maneuverability. However, these creatures are TOO good. Please don't let these things run around... Otherwise, my PFS group is going to suddenly have 14 Dire Bats flying everyone around. How horrifying.
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... So I tried out a character with a Dire Bat mount today. It was absolutely stupid. While I do believe at higher levels, all players should have access to flying, at level 1 it's totally ridiculous. Scenarios were not built in mind with flying characters. Add to this the fact that Casters can more or less ride these without much issue (failing the DC 5 Ride Check to guide your mount just deprives you of one hand, and not an action) and you have a very dumb situation on your hands, right away. I foresee a future where all players have these monsters as Mounts.
I really want these things banned... I will still continue to use it, simply because it makes sense (there's basically no downsides to having this bat), and provides excellent maneuverability. However, these creatures are TOO good. Please don't let these things run around... Otherwise, my PFS group is going to suddenly have 14 Dire Bats flying everyone around. How horrifying.
Well the casters will have to make concentration checks every time they cast. Which will lead to some lost spells.
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Well the casters will have to make concentration checks every time they cast. Which will lead to some lost spells.what makes you say this? is it your belief that mounted casters must make concentration checks whenever they cast, or only those mounted on flying mounts?
All mounted casters that the mount is moving. Flying mounts in particular because it's hard for the mount to not move and fly at the same time.. Not my belief, it's the rules for concentration in the magic chapter. Under the vigorous motion heading.
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All mounted casters that the mount is moving. Flying mounts in particular because it's hard for the mount to not move and fly at the same time.. Not my belief, it's the rules for concentration in the magic chapter. Under the vigorous motion heading.Well the casters will have to make concentration checks every time they cast. Which will lead to some lost spells.what makes you say this? is it your belief that mounted casters must make concentration checks whenever they cast, or only those mounted on flying mounts?So this would apply to anyone also using a bow (or other ranged weapon) on a flying mount. Or for that matter, conducting any action. This means that a flying mount is always taking a double move... as the concentration check is for a mount takeing a double move.
I would worry that judges will now apply the same logic to any mounts movement, not just flying ones. Did the mount move this turn? Yes? then suffer the -4 to hit that now only applies if your mount is taking a double move.
Ok, I see where the my confusion comes from, I forgot that the rules are in two places. The magic chapter just specifies moving, and not that if the mount uses only a single move action then the caster is fine. That caveat is in the mounted combat section.
I can't express how much I hate having partial rules without footnotes. This is the exact kind of mistake I would make at the table because I would be checking the concentration rules and not thinking to double check the mounted combat rules as well. Especially since concentration comes up far more for me than mounted combat.
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Is there still no update on this? Are we still going to let players all start flying?
Most scenarios are bad for large land mounts let alone large flying mounts. Let me see you bring that inside and squeeze into the 20x20 room with four bad guys and your other five party members. or better yet the 5 foot hallway that almost all maps have. It's not that big of an issue.
Is there still no update on this? Are we still going to let players all start flying?Most scenarios are bad for large land mounts let alone large flying mounts. Let me see you bring that inside and squeeze into the 20x20 room with four bad guys and your other five party members. or better yet the 5 foot hallway that almost all maps have. It's not that big of an issue.
On the other hand, Large creatures have always been able to go through 5 foot hallways. They just squeezed. Combat? They can just stand back.
But... I still give funny looks to people bringing in their horses and whatever into houses. (In real life) I had a donkey and horse come into my room. It was so awkward.
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I don't have Ultimate Equipment. Are there listed prices for giant mantises or giant wasps? You could be Small and fly around on one of them pretty easily, I think. Or is that not considered an 'animals available for purchase'?
The problem with vermin is they are mindless. Even as an animal companion you can only teach them 1 trick.
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I don't have Ultimate Equipment. Are there listed prices for giant mantises or giant wasps? You could be Small and fly around on one of them pretty easily, I think. Or is that not considered an 'animals available for purchase'?The problem with vermin is they are mindless. Even as an animal companion you can only teach them 1 trick.
And you need 2 tricks slots available to teach them Attack Anything. If you don't have that trick learned they won't attack things like Undead.
Talking this over with some other peeps convinced me that it seems like unless you have some kind of class feature that allows the creature to advance with you as you level its going to be quite expensive...not to mention having to invest in a Ring of Feather Falling earlier than you might want.
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Actually, and more seriously, if they had a new scenario set in the Darklands, perhaps down in Nar-Voth or Sekamina, where the Pathfinders come across a clutch of dire bat pups, a dire bat mount could be a great scenario boon. Similar to the Axebeak of the Tengu of Quest for Perfection.
Or you might just have to survive a bombing raid or two from the Redheds Goblin Bat-Biting Tribe. That might work.