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I wasn't able to find any posts dealing with this so I though I would ask the question. If a melee touch attack spell (such as Shocking Grasp) is modified by the meta magic feat Reach, turning it into a ranged touch attack, is the spell wasted if the ranged touch attack misses as a ray spell would be?
Yes it is wasted. Once the touch spell is turned into a ranged touch spell it follows all rules appropriate to ranged touch spells.
- Gauss
Yes it is wasted. Once the touch spell is turned into a ranged touch spell it follows all rules appropriate to ranged touch spells.
- Gauss
Do you have a reference in the rules for this?
-Trawets
Yes it is wasted. Once the touch spell is turned into a ranged touch spell it follows all rules appropriate to ranged touch spells.
- Gauss
Do you have a reference in the rules for this?
-Trawets
A) Only spells with range touch can be held until discharged.
B) Reach spell changes the range of the spell, in this case from touch to close.
A+B) The spell affected by Reach spell is no longer range touch, ergo it cannot be held.
trawets71:
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher. Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.
Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.
Note the bolded line. It states the melee Touch attack is now a ranged touch attack. Thus: see the rules on Ranged Touch spells.
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.
Note the bolded line: Ranged touch attacks cannot be held.
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
Note the bolded line. That line does not occur in the Ranged Touch Spells in Combat section. Since that line does not occur in the Ranged Touch Spells in Combat section ranged touch spells cannot make use of it.
Summary:
You changed a Touch Spell to a Ranged Touch Spell. The rules for Ranged Touch Spells do not allow you to hold the spell nor do they allow you to keep it if you missed.
- Gauss
What about using Spectral Hand? It appears that Spectral Hand allows for touch range spells to be cast at a distance, but does not seem to reference that they become ranged touch spells.
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What about using Spectral Hand? It appears that Spectral Hand allows for touch range spells to be cast at a distance, but does not seem to reference that they become ranged touch spells.
That's because they're not ranged touch spells. They're melee touch spells with a very long reach and a +2 to hit.
Hmm... I may have to get my oracle a wand of that spell eventually...
Tirion: Spectral Hand delivers melee touch spells at a distance. It is the same as sending your familiar to deliver a touch spell. All that changes is who (or what) is doing the touching.
Edit: Ninja'd :)
- Gauss
trawets71:
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher. Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.
Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.Note the bolded line. It states the melee Touch attack is now a ranged touch attack. Thus: see the rules on Ranged Touch spells.
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.Note the bolded line: Ranged touch attacks cannot be held.
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural...
Thanks for the references. That will satisfy any rules lawyers and was for what ever reason what I couldn't put together.
Trawets
No worries trawets71 :)
- Gauss
Thanks, wondered about that and when I saw this thread, figured I would toss out the question. So, what that really means is that Spectral Had rocks the Rod of Reach any day.
Spectral Hand only works with up to 4th level spells. Frankly, an Arbiter (improved familiar) rocks both. :D
- Gauss