Feat tomes


Homebrew and House Rules


One of the players in my party is playing a gunslinger and due to his character's personality, he's not willing to give his gun to someone else for magical improvement. He doesn't have the feats available to take the master craftsman and craft arms and armor feats, so I'm thinking of producing a couple of tomes that he can use to learn the feats permanently as bonus feats.

The pre-reqs still need to be met to benefit from the books (eg. he still needs to have 5 ranks in craft (gunsmithing) before he can use the master craftsman tome and needs that tome to be able to use the craft arms and armor tome).

I was just trying to figure out what would be a legitimate value of these tomes, as I want to factor them into his character wealth to try to keep things as balanced as possible.


A slotless magic item that grants a feat costs 10,000 gp. Should one that can never be taken off you cost more? Maybe?

If you call it a minimum of a wish, that sets the price at about 25,000 gp.


I don't know that I'd give him tomes to grant free feats for which he doesn't meet the prerequisites. Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to make concesssions for roleplaying, however, there are also "downsides" to making a concious choice as a player when roleplaying your character. If a wizard in your game wasn't willing to take the feats or allow someone to enchant his staff, for example, would you just give him the feats? If the answer is yes, it may be your players are exploiting your good & generous nature. I could be wrong - I don't know you or your players.

At best, I would recommend possibly creating customizable parts for the gun. Since he can craft his own firearm, I migt offer him a "replacement" barrel for his gun as loot found (which he could slot into the weapon), which granted the magical stats necessary for him (or her) to remain competative with the rest of the group.

If he wants his gear enchanted, he either needs to get the custom item (priced just like any other item), let someone else enchant "Vera" (Firefly reference), or just not get the upgrade.

All of this, of course, is my personal opinion.


Kudos to the player for playing that way. But it has a cost. Perhaps he will find a craftsman who will work on it in his presence. The other option is for him to make his own weapon out of special materials or get enchanted ammo.


Da'ath wrote:

I don't know that I'd give him tomes to grant free feats for which he doesn't meet the prerequisites. Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to make concesssions for roleplaying, however, there are also "downsides" to making a concious choice as a player when roleplaying your character. If a wizard in your game wasn't willing to take the feats or allow someone to enchant his staff, for example, would you just give him the feats? If the answer is yes, it may be your players are exploiting your good & generous nature. I could be wrong - I don't know you or your players.

At best, I would recommend possibly creating customizable parts for the gun. Since he can craft his own firearm, I migt offer him a "replacement" barrel for his gun as loot found (which he could slot into the weapon), which granted the magical stats necessary for him (or her) to remain competative with the rest of the group.

If he wants his gear enchanted, he either needs to get the custom item (priced just like any other item), let someone else enchant "Vera" (Firefly reference), or just not get the upgrade.

All of this, of course, is my personal opinion.

The thing about the tome is that you DO need to meet the prerequisites before you can use them. For instance, to be able to understand the tome of Master Craftsman (gunsmithing), you need to have 5 ranks in craft (gunsmithing). As for the create arms and armor tome, this one is specifically tied into the Master Craftsman (gunsmithing) tome and so the feat would only be usable in conjunction with craft (gunsmithing), not anything else. This was a specific thing I put in to limit the effectiveness of the tome and have it be a more story based magic item.


Flintas wrote:
The thing about the tome is that you DO need to meet the prerequisites before you can use them. For instance, to be able to understand the tome of Master Craftsman (gunsmithing), you need to have 5 ranks in craft (gunsmithing). As for the create arms and armor tome, this one is specifically tied into the Master Craftsman (gunsmithing) tome and so the feat would only be usable in conjunction with craft (gunsmithing), not anything else. This was a specific thing I put in to limit the effectiveness of the tome and have it be a more story based magic item.

I'm slightly distracted, watching my daughter at the moment while working from home, so I apologize if I've missed something. Admittedly, I'm not overly familiar with the gunslinger class as my group as whole decided to opt out of using it, as firearms and fantasy don't mix well for our setting. With these things in mind:

Assumption I: The Tome of Master Craftsman is a homebrew magic item you currently use or plan to use. I can't seem to find it anywhere, so if it isn't homebrew, could you please provide the book and page number?
Assumption II: The player does not currently possess the Master Craftsman feat and thus does not qualify to purchase the item creation feat.

If both of these assumptions hold true, I'm still not seeing a reason to give this player 1-2 bonus permanent feats (even restricted to gunsmithing) from magic items. Depending on his character level, if he wanted to get his gear enchanted, investing/not investing in these feats using his feat slots is his responsibility/choice, unless you grant feats in a simlar fashion to all your other players, maintaining fairplay (i.e. consistant rules). At the most, I'd consider adding Master Craftsman (gunsmithing) to the list of bonus feats gunslingers have available.

I get the impression, which may be wrong (I am probably reading too much into it), that you do not much care for the "feat tax" on item creation and this is a quick and dirty fix for a system you don't like. If that's the case, I don't care for it either. Ultimately, I removed all of the item creation feats from my game and instead tied the ability to construct magic items to specific rank values and minimum caster level to specific related skills.

The Exchange

I would make the crafting cost full price+ instead of half as he got the feats "free" make it not count as loot.

Materials are limited: roll the % to find a seller for magic items in that settlement to see if he can make it. Since otherwise he would avoid this too.

Simply, make it different RP but same effect.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

It seems silly to penalize him monetarily for wanting to have the same thing other people have (a magical gun with a +X bonus). Let him RP it however he wants, and then charge him the cost of buying the weapon. Figuring out how to give him magical item crafting feats in a "reasonable" way doesn't seem, well, reasonable. IMHO.


If you are set on a magical item look at the stat boosting tomes in relation to the feat tomes. Personally I would have no qualms with my players gaining bonus feats over time if they roleplay it well enough... though I Also give the master craftsman feat for free to everyone and it applies to all craft skills independently.

What I mean by the RPing thing is:

my Fighter wanted to learn Master Craftsman for free so I decided to let him shadow a Dwarven Smith and Elven Wizard combo to learn it. In game time it took 6 months cumulative for him to learn it. Real world about a month actual in game time do to adventuring was 13-1/2 months.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

If you are set on a magical item look at the stat boosting tomes in relation to the feat tomes. Personally I would have no qualms with my players gaining bonus feats over time if they roleplay it well enough... though I Also give the master craftsman feat for free to everyone and it applies to all craft skills independently.

What I mean by the RPing thing is:

my Fighter wanted to learn Master Craftsman for free so I decided to let him shadow a Dwarven Smith and Elven Wizard combo to learn it. In game time it took 6 months cumulative for him to learn it. Real world about a month actual in game time do to adventuring was 13-1/2 months.

I think this is probably a better idea. Maybe I'll go with this.

Thanks everyone for the input. Helpful as always.


Flintas wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

If you are set on a magical item look at the stat boosting tomes in relation to the feat tomes. Personally I would have no qualms with my players gaining bonus feats over time if they roleplay it well enough... though I Also give the master craftsman feat for free to everyone and it applies to all craft skills independently.

What I mean by the RPing thing is:

my Fighter wanted to learn Master Craftsman for free so I decided to let him shadow a Dwarven Smith and Elven Wizard combo to learn it. In game time it took 6 months cumulative for him to learn it. Real world about a month actual in game time do to adventuring was 13-1/2 months.

I think this is probably a better idea. Maybe I'll go with this.

Thanks everyone for the input. Helpful as always.

Allowing players to RP and get rewarded with feats even situational ones usually will lead to them RPing more often and better. It Also increases player agency.

And dear lord I sound like a librarian... Oh wait I kinda am...

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