Questions about Instant Armor

[WascallyWabbit]

According to the spell description, "Instant armor acts in all ways as armor typical of its type (armor bonus, maximum Dexterity bonus, arcane spell failure chance, and so on). Since instant armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can't bypass it the way they do normal armor."
It does not however say weather Instant armor has any actual weight?

Also, can the benefits of Instant Armor stack with Bracers of Armor and/or Amulets of Natural Armor?

[Mauril]

"Acts in all ways" seems to suggest it does. The "and so on" part of the list means that it's not an exhaustive list.

Bracers of Armor grant an armor bonus. Armor (including Instant Armor) grants an armor bonus. Like bonuses don't stack. Amulet of Natural Armor grants an "enhancement bonus to natural armor" so it stacks with an armor bonus and with natural armor (the same as the +5 enhancement bonus on a +5 breastplate stacks with the +6 armor bonus from the breastplate).

[WascallyWabbit]

Mauril wrote:

"Acts in all ways" seems to suggest it does. The "and so on" part of the list means that it's not an exhaustive list.

Bracers of Armor grant an armor bonus. Armor (including Instant Armor) grants an armor bonus. Like bonuses don't stack. Amulet of Natural Armor grants an "enhancement bonus to natural armor" so it stacks with an armor bonus and with natural armor (the same as the +5 enhancement bonus on a +5 breastplate stacks with the +6 armor bonus from the breastplate).

Not sure I agree with that. If Instant Armor is a Force Effect how can it have weight?

[Malag]

I am slightly interested in this question also. Weight isn't mentioned only "acts in all ways". For lv2 spell I would expect no weight.

[Mauril]

I'm guessing you are reading "acts in all ways" as "acts in all ways except one". If that's the case, then you are correct, it wouldn't have weight. If you are reading "acts in all ways" as "acts in all ways", then it has weight. It has weight because weight is a manner in which normal armor acts; especially since encumbrance is a way armor acts on a character.

Regarding how force has weight, it doesn't. However, force can act as weight. Have you ever pushed on a scale with your hands? As a child, I always liked to see if I could make an analog bathroom scale roll all the way back around to zero by pushing on it hard enough. Now, I know for a fact that seven year old me didn't weigh over 300 pounds, but I know that I could apply that much force to a bathroom scale. So, the force armor created by the conjuration (creation) spell Instant Armor applies force on the user. It just so happens that this force is equivalent to the force encountered by the weight of the armor it is emulating.

[Malag]

@Mauril
What you say is most likely true and I agree with you.

It's just that, I would expect more from level 2 spell, that's it.

[Mauril]

Well, when you get it, you get a +6 set of armor, which is better than Mage Armor. It also is a convenient way to hide away items on your person, since the instant armor replaces anything you are currently wearing (and brings it back when the spell ends, one assumes).

This armor bonus goes to +7, +8 and +9 at levels 6, 9 and 12, respectively. Your best bet is to keep the armor as chainmail at all times (highest max dex, lowest ACP and ASF - not that your cleric or paladin worries about that - and second lowest weight) and just add the enhancement bonus to the armor.

[WascallyWabbit]

Mauril wrote:

I'm guessing you are reading "acts in all ways" as "acts in all ways except one". If that's the case, then you are correct, it wouldn't have weight. If you are reading "acts in all ways" as "acts in all ways", then it has weight. It has weight because weight is a manner in which normal armor acts; especially since encumbrance is a way armor acts on a character.

Cool it, dude. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was being petulant. That was not the intention. No need to get all "lecturing adult-like" on me.

Mauril wrote:

Regarding how force has weight, it doesn't. However, force can act as weight. Have you ever pushed on a scale with your hands? As a child, I always liked to see if I could make an analog bathroom scale roll all the way back around to zero by pushing on it hard enough. Now, I know for a fact that seven year old me didn't weigh over 300 pounds, but I know that I could apply that much force to a bathroom scale. So, the force armor created by the conjuration (creation) spell Instant Armor applies force on the user. It just so happens that this force is equivalent to the force encountered by the weight of the armor it is emulating.

That makes more sense. And I can definately understand how it would still inflict ACP's on characters. I'm just not sure I agree with you about the "downward" force. The way I understand "force effect" is as an energy field surrounding something. If you have an energy field surrounding parts of your body, surely the "upward force" (from the parts underneath you) would negate the "downward force" (from the parts above you). You would still suffer the ACP problems with Climb and/or Swim, but the weight that would slow your movement down wouldn't really apply. Would it?

[Mauril]

With Mage Armor (a similar spell), it states that you are surrounded with a shimmering force, like you describe. With Instant Armor, it says it creatures you a suit of armor. It even goes so far as to replace the clothing and armor you are wearing with this new suit of opaque force. This tells me that it's actually a structure clinging to the body, not a nebulous force field, like Mage Armor.

And, going back to "in all ways", yes, it would slow and apply ACP to skill checks. And, it seems, if you aren't proficient in heavy armor, the banded, half- and full-plate versions would apply the non-proficiency penalty to attack rolls and all physical checks.

I agree that it's weak for a second level spell, especially a second level paladin spell, but that's the RAW. I'd probably houserule it down to a first level paladin spell at my table, but that's not particularly relevant unless you play at my table.

[Malag]

Now that I think of, it's excellent spell for NPCs or PCs who rest often outside. If you get ambushed while sleeping without armor it might provide quick means of getting armor.

It grants +2 more bonus then Mage Armor, I guess it makes sense.

It's also good for NPCs.

[Sinatar]

Not only does this spell grant more AC than Mage Armor, but it allows you to don a set of armor as a standard action. Being able to equip (and remove) a set of full plate as a standard action is pretty nice.

You can even use Magic Vestment with this spell to give you even more AC, since it acts "in all ways" like a regular suit of armor of its kind. Remember that Magic Vestment technically makes the armor Masterwork too, which means its ACP is reduced as well.

So at 12th level, with a single 2nd and 3rd level spell (2 standard actions), you can give yourself a set of +3 Full Plate made of force (12 AC) that lasts for 12 minutes. Combined with Shield of Faith, that's +16 AC gained from a few low level spells alone. If a cleric or oracle has low AC, it's not because he doesn't have the means available. :)

[Lopke]

It's not weak, it's situational.

It's also the "I'm sleeping, dammit" back-up. Playing by RAW it takes at least 1 minute to don chainmail hastily (with -1 to AC and +1 AC penalty).

It's 1 standard action to get Instant Armor.

Yes, you could have Endurance, etc, but the easy way for most adventurers to be ready for an ambush, at sea combat, etc, is this spell.

It is definitely not weak. It is a very useful situational spell.

IMHO.

Cheers