Quick clarification of Monk's Flurry of Blows


Rules Questions

Lantern Lodge

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Hello all. I have a monk, 1st level, with a Strength of 16 for a +3 Strength modifier. He's level one, so his BAB is 0, though for the purposes of Flurrying he uses his level. I took a Lantern Lodge trait to gain proficiency with one weapon possessing the "monk" special quality, choosing Sansetsukon. Now, the core rulebook lists his Flurry of Blows at level one as -1/-1. With a Strength modifier of one, and a Masterwork Sansetsukon, would he be flurrying at +3/+3 or am I missing something. F.o.B -1/-1, +3 Strength Mod, +1 Masterwork Weapon equals +3/+3 correct? Thanks for your time and consideration.


+3/+3 sounds correct to me. Why take the trait? As a monk, aren't you already proficient with all weapons with the "monk" quality?


Sounds good besides you saying "strength modifier of one" when it should be three ;) the math was right.

Lantern Lodge

Thanks guys. F.o.B -1/-1, Strength Mod +3, Masterwork Weapon +1 equals +3/+3. Sweet.

Shadow Lodge

You have it right. But be aware that Sean K Reynolds said a few months back that a monk cannot flurry of blows with just one weapon. Sean's Ruling

Quoted for your Convenience:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:


Actually, because the rules say a monk's flurry is as if he's using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, he can't simply declare that he's using the same fist seven times. So there is something stopping him from hitting someone seven times with his left fist or a +2 flaming kama: the rules for how flurry works.

I have seen different GMs take different sides on this. So if it is PFS character (looks like one), be ready for some variation.


Lefty X wrote:
As a monk, aren't you already proficient with all weapons with the "monk" quality?

CRB, Equipment, Monk: "A monk weapon can be used by a monk to perform a flurry of blows (see Classes)."

Proficiency is still relevant.


Well, it is still kind of up in the air Ser Murdoc. According to how the developers intended for flurry of blows of work, you cannot use a weapon to get all of your flurry attacks. I.e., it works LIKE two-weapon fighting, except that you can make all of your attacks with unarmed strikes if you want.

Since the Sansetsukon is NOT a double weapon, you could get one attack with it at +3 and one attack with an unarmed strike at +2 while using flurry of blows as a first level monk. Or you could get two attacks with unarmed strikes at +2 each.

Be sure and remember as well, that even though the Sansetsukon is a two-handed weapon, you do not get your Strength bonus x 1.5 on damage; you just get your Strength bonus. So that damage would be 1d10+3 for the Sansetsukon and 1d6+3 for your unarmed strike (you don't get half your Strength modifier for you off-hand either).

However, they did say they will be revisiting this and it is subject to change; but so far we have not heard anything.

Master Arminas


As it is a 2H weapon they can probably get away with +3/+3 RAW. Make first attack, remove "offhand"(free action), switch weapon to be held by "offhand" (free action), add main hand to grip (free action) so you are wielding weapon, make second attack.


master arminas wrote:

Well, it is still kind of up in the air Ser Murdoc. According to how the developers intended for flurry of blows of work, you cannot use a weapon to get all of your flurry attacks. I.e., it works LIKE two-weapon fighting, except that you can make all of your attacks with unarmed strikes if you want.

Since the Sansetsukon is NOT a double weapon, you could get one attack with it at +3 and one attack with an unarmed strike at +2 while using flurry of blows as a first level monk. Or you could get two attacks with unarmed strikes at +2 each.

Be sure and remember as well, that even though the Sansetsukon is a two-handed weapon, you do not get your Strength bonus x 1.5 on damage; you just get your Strength bonus. So that damage would be 1d10+3 for the Sansetsukon and 1d6+3 for your unarmed strike (you don't get half your Strength modifier for you off-hand either).

However, they did say they will be revisiting this and it is subject to change; but so far we have not heard anything.

Master Arminas

It's worth noting that nothing published by Paizo, including their own GMG and a number of PFS scenarios, follows this ruling. For now, the last word was Jason effectively saying "Ok, we're not making any errata or clarifications now, we'll revisit it later."


Bobson wrote:
master arminas wrote:

Well, it is still kind of up in the air Ser Murdoc. According to how the developers intended for flurry of blows of work, you cannot use a weapon to get all of your flurry attacks. I.e., it works LIKE two-weapon fighting, except that you can make all of your attacks with unarmed strikes if you want.

Since the Sansetsukon is NOT a double weapon, you could get one attack with it at +3 and one attack with an unarmed strike at +2 while using flurry of blows as a first level monk. Or you could get two attacks with unarmed strikes at +2 each.

Be sure and remember as well, that even though the Sansetsukon is a two-handed weapon, you do not get your Strength bonus x 1.5 on damage; you just get your Strength bonus. So that damage would be 1d10+3 for the Sansetsukon and 1d6+3 for your unarmed strike (you don't get half your Strength modifier for you off-hand either).

However, they did say they will be revisiting this and it is subject to change; but so far we have not heard anything.

Master Arminas

It's worth noting that nothing published by Paizo, including their own GMG and a number of PFS scenarios, follows this ruling. For now, the last word was Jason effectively saying "Ok, we're not making any errata or clarifications now, we'll revisit it later."

Oh, I agree. Just pointing out that the controversy is still out there.

MA


It could also be worth noting that the monk has been able to single weapon flurry every since at least 3.5 (which had a FAQ entry on just that subject). Of course, PF flurry is worded differently than 3.5 flurry in that it actually references TWF rather than simply working more-or-less exactly like it.

Scarab Sages

Our de facto house-ruling on the subject was to apply it (the TWF restricions in Flurry) only to one-handed weapons, forcing you to alternate while wielding a single one-handed weapon, or a pair of one-handed weapons, but that two-handed weapons can be used for a full flurry, since the bonus damage a Two-Handed weapon would normally receive is being sacrificed for additional speed and control.
That has no bearing whatsoever in RAW, but made sense for all of us in our group, and avoids weird situations like flurrying with a reach weapon and having to find something adjacent to kick every other attack.


Are wrote:

It could also be worth noting that the monk has been able to single weapon flurry every since at least 3.5 (which had a FAQ entry on just that subject). Of course, PF flurry is worded differently than 3.5 flurry in that it actually references TWF rather than simply working more-or-less exactly like it.

Right you are, Are. LOL Which only added to the confusion of clarification issued (and then put in limbo) a few months back.

MA

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