| Ratinyourwalls |
Kicked off a campaign at level one last night and was talking to my players about their eventual campaign goals. One, the player of the Alchemist, chimed in and said that he eventually wanted his character to take the Test of the Starstone. I'm okay with this and agreed that it wouldn't be a very real possibility til at least the level double digits.
So this gives me a bit of time to prepare. What kinds of nasty stuff should I throw at him that will make this test a story for the ages?
| Heaven's Agent |
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First it's important to realize that not anyone can take the Test of the Starstone. It is physically accessible to only a select few, and no one knows what criteria are used to determine this access, nor what power determines eligibility. Generally seeking to take the Test guarantees that a being will not be granted access, because such characters are too focused on that goal to embody an ideal.
You will need to essentially test the character throughout his adventuring career. He's going to have to establish himself as a champion or paragon of some ideal or concept that would ultimately become his portfolio if he ever took and passed the Test. His success or failure in this should be determined by you, and it should be something unspoken. It should be something that grows out of how the character is played. Anything stated by the player as such a goal or objective is likely to be insufficient, because once again the character is going to be interested in qualifying for the Test rather than naturally embodying the theme.
You should only consider administering the Test after your campaign has come to an end; taking the Test of the Starstone is a character retirement scenario. If a character fails the Test they are truly killed, with no chance at being returning to life. If they succeed they ascend and become a god. In either case the character is no longer playable.
The challenges that comprise the Test should probably be use to determine the character's resolve and capability to act upon the ideal you have identified in secret and not shared with the player. Because you have not identified that theme yet it is impossible to help you decide on what these challenges will be. That said, they should test the character (not the player) physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. Failing any challenge would result in failing the Test. The character should have to face and overcome his or her inner demons, as well as external threats to the ideals he or she embodies.
For now I don't think there's much more that can be said. At the moment simply observe how the character is played. Tell the player he is going to have to really push the character RP; don;t tell him the reason necessarily, but if he doesn't do so you will be unable to identify the concept(s) to test.
| The Crusader |
If a character fails the Test they are truly killed, with no chance at being returning to life. If they succeed they ascend and become a god. In either case the character is no longer playable.
I agree, the test(s) should encompass the portfolio and in some way, the domains, that the soon to be deity will possess.
However, it's not entirely true that it's godhood-or-bust.
Some people who manage to get inside the Cathedral stumble out again barely alive with no memory of what occurred. Some come out with fabulous riches and powerful magical items and/or artifacts. Plenty do die, though. So, it's obviously a very difficult, lethal test.
One thing that is certain, though, is that for your first "test", you have to get across the bottomless chasm that surrounds the Temple. Everyone's crossing has to be unique. Simply flying over or tossing a grappling hook isn't sufficient.
An example: When Iomedae approached the Pit of the Starstone in Absalom, she cast her cloak of common wool before her. It straightened and expanded to become a firm walkway across the gap, allowing her to enter the Cathedral and take the Test.
| Heaven's Agent |
However, it's not entirely true that it's godhood-or-bust.
Some people who manage to get inside the Cathedral stumble out again barely alive with no memory of what occurred. Some come out with fabulous riches and powerful magical items and/or artifacts. Plenty do die, though. So, it's obviously a very difficult, lethal test.
True, but unfortunately for a player character it remains a retirement scenario. The player would in essence know too much, and as such so would the character. I would postulate it is impossible to RP a character that has undergone the test and survived without elaborating on the experience in some way. And should the character pass the Test, that is truly it for the character.
For future ease of play and to stress the gravity of the Test, though, I would recommend telling the player ahead of time that it is an ascend or die situation. Stick to these two outcomes.
"Devil's Advocate"
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Why does this have to be a retirement or end of game thing?
I'm also not sure about that part abut only certain people can enter. It is certainly extremely dangerous and and exceptionally difficult (but then again, maybe it isn't at all, no one actually knows). But there are plenty of ways that you could do this, and there is no reason that this couldn't be something that either extends throughout the game or is something that the player (or party) could actually accompish long before then end of the game. Maybe going through the test is only a part of the actual test, and the characters then nee to develope and learn their new natue and powers as they actually rise to <demi> deityhood.
Maybe they need to actively build a church/following, as well as establish allies and enemies among the existing divine portfolio? Or make some sort of mark (socially) among evry single race/culture in Golarion before they actually achieve raise?
| Heaven's Agent |
Why does this have to be a retirement or end of game thing?
Because when you pass the Test you are a deity. There is no transitional period. This is already established in the setting lore: once you successfully emerge you are a fully-realized divine entity. Your CR would be somewhere in the mid to high 20s, regardless of your level when you began the Test.
I'm also not sure about that part abut only certain people can enter.
This is also already established in the setting. The entrance to the test simply does not open for everyone, and if it doesn't open you cannot enter to take the Test.
"Devil's Advocate"
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Why does this have to be a retirement or end of game thing?
Because when you pass the Test you are a deity. There is no transitional period. This is already established in the setting lore: once you successfully emerge you are a fully-realized divine entity. Your CR would be somewhere in the mid to high 20s, regardless of your level when you began the Test.
Not really. Only a handful of people have every done it since Aroden's death, and all of them where already very powerful, (Iomedae was a near epic Arodenian Paladin general for instane, CC was already a powerful and tricky drunkard calling himself a fighter, :), Nori was already a master assassin/deciever). Having a "divine rank" isn't in itself that huge of a boost, particularly without divine allies, followers, a home plane (or even headquarters), and the like. Who is to say that they automatically get a huge boost in power? Especially if you treat it like a template, which would simply go off of the haracters HD (Class Level). It would make them (non-Native) Outsiders, which does mean that actually dying means probably not comming back. So they are immortal as far as age goes, do not need to eat or drink, sleep, and can still die like anyone else. I'd say, going this route, maybe a +2 CR, but it's not really the point.
I'm also not sure about that part abut only certain people can enter.
This is also already established in the setting. The entrance to the test simply does not open for everyone, and if it doesn't open you cannot enter to take the Test.
This I do not recall. You may be right, I just don't remember that part at all.
| Heaven's Agent |
Who is to say that they automatically get a huge boost in power?
The developers, actually. CC was not a hero of any note when he took the Test, nor did he have any followers. Yet he attained divinity literally before he sobered up. What's more, he was powerful enough at that point to begin appointing his own divine servants, including his herald.
If you pass the Test you become a true deity, instantly. You can endow others with your divine power. You can grant divine spells and boons. You can perform miracles and other divine feats, and your power exceeds anything that mortals are capable of achieving. You might have to struggle to establish your place in the wider multiverse, but that's something that goes well beyond the scope of the game; Pathfinder has no rules for playing a deity.
It is a game-ending change for a player character.
prosfilaes
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I would say that you should challenge the character on what they find easy and what they find hard; that a fighter should have to fight something that's just a pile of hit points and armor with high SR and energy resistance, something that would normally be up their line, but it has just so many hit points; and then they should have to fight the reverse, something with a low CR but can fly and has other features that would frustrate the fighter.
| Heaven's Agent |
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:I'm also not sure about that part abut only certain people can enter.Heaven's Agent wrote:This is also already established in the setting. The entrance to the test simply does not open for everyone, and if it doesn't open you cannot enter to take the Test.This I do not recall. You may be right, I just don't remember that part at all.
I'm talking about the passage over the pit surrounding the Cathedral. Methods that should work to get someone across don't always function normally, and occasional methods that are logically impossible do allow passage. Iomedae using her cloak as a bridge is one example of the latter.
No one knows why some methods work and others do not. The test does not open to you unless you can succeed at this initial trial, though.
| Heaven's Agent |
What I mean is that the way you say it implies something a little different. People not being able to cross to the Starstone isnt the same as them being denied the test for some unknown/unknowable reason.:)
Though it is the same thing. The reasons that some methods of crossing work while others do not is totally unknown. We know that no two hopefuls have ever crossed in the same manner, but beyond that the process of crossing the chasm and being able to access the test is a mystery.