Trample feat used with trampling mount

[daeruin]

I am looking at a Cavalier using the Beast Rider archetype. One of the potential mounts is the arnisoitherium, which has a trample ability. This ability works just like overrun, with a few changes.

Trample (Creature Ability):

As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

So the creature ability Trample lets you overrun without making a check, but the target can choose to make an AoO at -4 or else try to avoid the trample by making a Reflex save to take half damage. It also looks like the creature can Trample more than one target, as long as they are at least one size smaller.

It's a pretty cool ability. But what if the cavalier also takes the Trample feat?

Trample (Feat):

When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.

Or what if the mount takes Improved Overrun and/or Greater Overrun?

Improved Overrun:

You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an overrun combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to overrrun a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to overrun you. Targets of your overrun attempt may not choose to avoid you.

Greater Overrun:

You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to overrun a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Overrun. Whenever you overrun opponents, they provoke attacks of opportunity if they are knocked prone by your overrun.

The Trample feat obviously overlaps somewhat with Improved Overrun/Greater Overrun, but lacks the bonuses to CMB and CMD and the ability to avoid the AoO. It would be a waste to take all three. Improved Overrun and the Trample feat both make it so the target can't avoid the overrun. Greater Overrun and the Trample feat both give the creature a free attack if the overrun succeeds. The feat Improved Overrun additionally makes it so you don't provoke AoOs when doing an overrun.

Do you think the rules support the idea that these could be combined somehow? I don't see anything in the wording of the different rules that makes it obvious they wouldn't work together. They all trigger from the attempt to overrun. If they were combined, the creature would get an auto-overrun that doesn't provoke AoO, can't be avoided, and does automatic damage against multiple (smaller) targets. That seems pretty crazy.

Or would you say that the player has to pick one? Either a standard overrun buffed by feats (Improved Overrun/Greater Overrun or Trample), or else a standard creature Trample. That seems more reasonable, but again, I don't see anything to really prevent combining them. That doesn't mean it isn't there, though. Maybe I'm just not seeing it. Sometimes the interpretation of these things can turn on a single overlooked word.

[daeruin]

Anyone?

[Mojorat]

I think that the monster ability is clearly treated as an over run attempt. Ergo the trample feat works provided your mount has hooves.

I dont think greater over run works with the ability as it does not provide a chance to Knock people over it just does damage. Wether imp over run stops the aoo is probly DM's call but i think it should.

[daeruin]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you, but GM fiat will definitely rule the day.

I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts on this.