How do you decide how many spells a high level wizard has during the design process?


Advice


Didn't know how to exactly put it in the title,but i'm creating the king of an elven nation in my campaign.
I want him to be a very powerful mage and after looking some example from Golarion stuff (Queen Telandia Edasseril and Alicavniss Vonnarc) i noticed their possessions don't include the spellbook.
Now, i know how to add spells to a wizard's spellbook, and i know how many spells he gets with every level up, but that applies when you roll a new level 1 PC; even a 15th level or higher wizard would have to decide which spells are on his spellbook when the PC is created (he doesn't begin with all spells in the setting just because he is high level does him?).

But when creating an NPC that, being a king, should have greater resources i should also know how many spells he knows; and surely he will know more that those he he has by only leveling.

Are the extra spell taken by his char wealth per level?
Or is completely up to me?


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I knew exactly what you were asking from the thread title alone because I've been faced with this same question lately as I plan out NPC's.

I couldn't find anything specific in the rules.

Here's what I've been doing. First figure out a typical "Spells Prepared" list for his stat block. Obviously all of those will be in his spell book at least.

Then for low level spells I add everything from his specialty school to his spell book.

Then I just sprinkle in a few things he would have less frequent need of, but he could prepare them if the occasion called for it.

Then I throw in a few spells that I want the PC's to acquire if they get their hands on his spell book.

Also I probably have one or two spells in his book that are higher level then he can cast.

I also like the idea you had of using his WBL as a guideline, but so far I'm happy just winging it.

Sovereign Court

It's just money spent scribing and you deciding what he has access to. You'd do that the same way you quip him with things, filling in that detail. That's something you can leave very nebulous and just focus on what he has memorized at a particular moment.

That's if you plan on letting the PC's have access to his books somehow. Otherwise don't bother. He's a high level wizard with easy access to everything. His spell book should never come up in regular play. It's a detail you don't need to waste your time on.


In case of a King or another person with access to wealth way beyond the normal WBL, it would make sense that he has access to almost all spells actually.
He might have spread them out over several spellbooks however.

But as Morgen said, thats all only important if you want the PCs to ever get into possesion of the spellbook. Either after killing him or by befriending him and the wizard borrowing the spellbook to trade spells.


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These are simply guidelines; no rules exist for what you are looking for:

Generally a wizard NPC of that stature has access to all standard spells (Core Rulebook), contained within a collection of spellbooks, as well as uncommon spells present in their stat block. Selecting spells for such NPCs is more a matter of deciding what fits thematically than it is a matter of character wealth.

A high-level wizard away from his library generally carries some sort of traveling spellbook containing the spells prepared in his stat block and maybe a few additional spells at GM discretion.


Actually, there are ruels for this. A wizard begins with all cantrips and 3+int 1st level spells. Then you choose two spells for every time ze has gained a wizard level. Then you can pay for more by paying the viewing/scroll price and the copying price. This is deducted from the WBL.

But you could also just wing it.


I remember from the forgotten realms NPC write ups that most of the big hitters (20th and above) pretty much knew all spells from lower levels (depending on character, some knew all 5th level spells and below, while i think 1 at least knew all 7th level and below).

Once you get to that power level they are hardly things PCs should be fighting or killing. So WBL considerations should be disregarded. If you want the PCs to have access to his spells, make them parts of plot rewards, or make them pay for it. If you want the PCs to find his book (good luck, wizards that powerful have plenty of ways to hide them), just make it ONE of his many books. A guy that powerful can hardly fit all of his spells into just one after all, its more likely to look like an encyclopedia after all.


stringburka wrote:
Actually, there are ruels for this. A wizard begins with all cantrips and 3+int 1st level spells. Then you choose two spells for every time ze has gained a wizard level. Then you can pay for more by paying the viewing/scroll price and the copying price. This is deducted from the WBL.

Which only works if a character is restricted to WBL. The characters the OP is talking about do not suffer this restriction, and as such these rules do not apply. They fall apart.


Heaven's Agent wrote:
stringburka wrote:
Actually, there are ruels for this. A wizard begins with all cantrips and 3+int 1st level spells. Then you choose two spells for every time ze has gained a wizard level. Then you can pay for more by paying the viewing/scroll price and the copying price. This is deducted from the WBL.
Which only works if a character is restricted to WBL. The characters the OP is talking about do not suffer this restriction, and as such these rules do not apply. They fall apart.

"Now, i know how to add spells to a wizard's spellbook, and i know how many spells he gets with every level up, but that applies when you roll a new level 1 PC; even a 15th level or higher wizard would have to decide which spells are on his spellbook when the PC is created (he doesn't begin with all spells in the setting just because he is high level does him?)."

This is what I answered to.

Note though that NPC's normally have far lower wealth than PC's.

But of course, when you're the DM you can (and often should) ignore those guidelines.


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I use the rules as normal for starting spells. I then add 2 per level. From there I build the caster using NPC wealth. How much gold I spend scribing spells into the spellbook depends on what spells I want the NPC to have that he does not have after adding the free one, and/or what spells I might think a wizard might like after the NPC is defeated.

PS:I try to give them at least 2 or 3 good spells that they don't already have. I also try to stay within the guidelines now. I used to ignore them, but I found that by forcing myself to be more efficient with what I have I am now a better gamer as far as mechanics go anyway.


Step 1: determine wizard's starting intelligence
Step 2: Choose wizard School Specialty (and subschool specialty if any)
Step 3: Add all zero level spells except opposition school spells.
Step 4: Add first level spells = (3+starting intelligence bonus)
Step 5: Add levels. Every time the wizard levels he gets 2 new spells. They should be chosen from the highest level spells the wizard can cast at that point. One of those spells must be from his specialty.

Example:

At level 15 this all means a wizard has:
0th: All but opposition
1st: 3+starting intelligence +2 (1 must be specialty)
2nd: 4 (2 must be specialty)
3rd: 4 (2 must be specialty)
4th: 4 (2 must be specialty)
5th: 4 (2 must be specialty)
6th: 4 (2 must be specialty)
7th: 4 (2 must be specialty)
8th: 2 (1 must be specialty)

Step 6: Detemine how much gold the NPC has. See CRB p454 table 14-9. At level 15 an NPC has either 34,800gp or 45,000gp depending on if heroic or not.

Step 7: Buy extra spells. (This assumes the NPC has made all spellcraft checks to learn new spells.) Price per spell is: 10*Spell level*spell level*1.5. Alternately, use table on CRB p219 (multiple table by 1.5)

Note: If NPC has a Blessed Book the formula for new spells is actually 10*spell level*spell level*0.5. The prices in the table on CRB p219 is cut in half.

Remember, any spells the NPC winds up with the PCs will probably have after the battle.

Step 8: Determine memorized spells. If NPC has an Arcane Bond make sure you know what spells are in his spellbook (which are the arcane bond default spells).

Step 9: Determine other magic items, feats, etc just like normal NPCs.

Also: Level 15 wizards should have a contingency spell upon them at all times. Make sure Contingency is in his spellbook (even if it is an opposition school).

Hope this helps.

- Gauss

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

As a rule of thumb I just give them the normal starting amount then 2 + Int mod per level(natural int mod before any magic item boosts) and spend them just as if they had leveled. I find it tends to give them a nice variety of lower level spells, with fewer and fewer higher level ones.


Gauss wrote:

Step 1: determine wizard's starting intelligence

Step 2: Choose wizard School Specialty (and subschool specialty if any)
Step 3: Add all zero level spells except opposition school spells.
Step 4: Add first level spells = (3+starting intelligence bonus)
Step 5: Add levels. Every time the wizard levels he gets 2 new spells. They should be chosen from the highest level spells the wizard can cast at that point. One of those spells must be from his specialty.
** spoiler omitted **

Step 6: Detemine how much gold the NPC has. See CRB p454 table 14-9. At level 15 an NPC has either 34,800gp or 45,000gp depending on if heroic or not.

Step 7: Buy extra spells. (This assumes the NPC has made all spellcraft checks to learn new spells.) Price per spell is: 10*Spell level*spell level*1.5. Alternately, use table on CRB p219 (multiple table by 1.5)

Note: If NPC has a Blessed Book the formula for new spells is actually 10*spell level*spell level*0.5. The prices in the table on CRB p219 is cut in half.

Remember, any spells the NPC winds up with the PCs will probably have after the battle.

Step 8: Determine memorized spells. If NPC has an Arcane Bond make sure you know what spells are in his spellbook (which are the arcane bond default spells).

Step 9: Determine other magic items, feats, etc just like normal NPCs.

Also: Level 15 wizards should have a contingency spell upon them at all times. Make sure Contingency is in his spellbook (even if it is an opposition school).

Hope this helps.

- Gauss

It sure does, thanks.

Forgot about the contingency, but have to begin the entire process yet,will surely give him some.


Contingency only allows one contingent spell being active at a time.
Example: You can have a contingent Stoneskin or a contingent Protection from Energy but not both.

- Gauss

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