Need some GM help for water adventures.

[Ellestil]

Hello there,

First post here so I will give some background on my experience. I started with D&D original box set, progressed to AD&D, then to WHF. After that I took a hiatus for awhile and missed 3, 3.5, and 4th edition. The beginner box of Pathfinder, however, looked so appealing I had to buy it and get back into gaming again. I loved it so much I bought the CRB, GMG, and B1 (and pre-ordered the B1 box set).

I DM'd the previous games, and I have read the GM's guide and CRB guide for DM'ing. However, I am still kind of unclear as to how either a water adventure plays out on ship or underwater. I guess underwater would be just like on land except your swimming and magically can breath underwater, but temples or sunken ships act just like a dungeon. Is there anything else to take into consideration that would make the adventure more exciting from a GM point of view that I am missing?

As far as a ship adventure, my question is how do encounters work with ships? For example, although a ship to ship encounter I can work out, or a boarding scenario I can work out, how about ship vs monster? Say a giant squid attacks the ship or a dire crocodile attacks a barge? Do the creatures expose themselves enough to be attacked by characters with swords and bows or does the creature more likely stay in the water and such attacks are usless, therefore relying on the ships capabilities to defend itself like a cannon or something?

Any help would be appreciated as I have never done a water themed adventure and would like to build one for my group to try. My idea is to start with a ship journey involving some creature encounters, progress to having to dive underwater for part of the adventure and include an underwater chase scene through some reefs and lava tunnels, find and explore a sunken gnome experimental ship and retrieve the captain's diary(kept in an airtight chest), then finish with a ship to ship battle on the way home.

Sincerely,

Ellestil

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

It's 3.5, but stormwrack is a pretty good reference. Also, the Skulls and Shackles module has stuff like you are looking for.

[Ellestil]

Thanks for answering. Anything in particular in those modules you mentioned that you really liked as a player or a gm?

[John Spalding]

For ship rules take a look at the FREE skull and shackles player's guide. There are ships there to use as "NPCs"

For underwater rules, the CRB has a lot. It has movement rules (under swim IIRC) and combat modifiers.

[LearnTheRules]

Stormwrack is pretty good but I'd say the Cerulean Seas Campaign Setting is better for rules. It has things such as bouyancy, pressure and it has some great guidelines for making 3d battlefields/grids. It's also designed for Pathfinder and converts everything to work with it. You don't have to use the provided campaign setting but there's some pretty cool races and other stuff that could easily be incorporated into Golarion or a homebrew setting ;)

[John Spalding]

Ellestil wrote:

As far as a ship adventure, my question is how do encounters work with ships? For example, although a ship to ship encounter I can work out, or a boarding scenario I can work out, how about ship vs monster? Say a giant squid attacks the ship or a dire crocodile attacks a barge? Do the creatures expose themselves enough to be attacked by characters with swords and bows or does the creature more likely stay in the water and such attacks are usless, therefore relying on the ships capabilities to defend itself like a cannon or something?

For something normal sized (Huge or smaller) I would treat it as normal combat.

For something huge and epic, I would treat it as a series of encounters/requirements.

I.e. The squid has grabbed the ship and is pulling it under. Then make a table for various things:

1) The ship goes down in five rounds if not enough was done. Each round it makes 4 attacks.
2) Tentacles have a 20 AC and 20 hp. Each one killed reduces the number of attacks.
3) The body of the squid has AC 18 and 150 hp. Killing it is a success.
4) Hitting the squid in the eye AC 25 delays the sinking by a round as the squid is stunned by pain.

[Ellestil]

Very nice. Didn't think of an encounter with mini-objectives that way for a ship battle. I like it. I started printing the Skulls and Shackles information now and will read it tonight for more information. I love learning better GM tricks. So Cerulean Seas gives more detailed information on rules specifically to underwater adventures? If that is so sounds like it and Skulls would be just what I'm looking for. Of course any more good idea's for encounters I wouldn't turn down either :).

Thanks very much guys for your time.

[Magnu123]

John Spalding has a good point. The other thing I would say to you would be to see what the PC's do when confronted with a giant creature attacking the ship. Have a rough idea for a few mechanics prepared and see how they progress. The first encounter might be a little shaky, but it will give you valuable feedback so you can prepare another scenario for the next time knowing the kinds of strategies they use.

[LearnTheRules]

Glad to have been of help :) Cerulean Seas is fairly detailed but it can be used modularly if needs be. And John Spalding and Magnu123 make a good point about monsters attacking a ship, don't bog the PCs down with loads of complicated rules, just set certain things they can do to repel it and abstract from there. Also remember that animals generally flee when wounded, if the kraken or whatever is giving them a very hard time then have it let go and swim off after taking a decent amount of damage. It wants food after all, not martyrdom :P

[Vicon]

One of the things that GMing an underwater adventure lends itself as interesting to the GM is that you have a dramatically increased control of movement, light control, visibility, and one or two additional avenues of movement/attack (above and below even more so than on land with burrow/fly, anything can come from above or below.)

Anti-magic underwater could prove very deadly if spells are providing life support down there.
Don't forget that temperatures can range differently, and oceanic poisons (designed for cold-blooded creatures) are ridiculously lethal to warm-bloodeds.

Sound works differently too! You have, through design or circumstance, not just heightened control of the environment, but control of the players SENSES!

[Ellestil]

Thanks for the tips guys. Been reading Skulls and it has been a great help for naval play. Extra nice to be free as well. Very impressed with paizo so far.