TetsujinOni
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The loot is still listed at the 3.5 prices because there hasn't really been any need to re-release the season 0 stuff. I know every so often talk about turning season 0 to PF from 3.5 pops up, but for the most part nothing happens.
That price was incorrect in 3.5 as well, Mourne. Enlarge Person only needed to be CL5 for the increase to size large in 3.0. The price was incorrectly not updated in the potion chart in the DMG in 3.5. I guess my underlying and implied question is, because it is priced as a CL5 potion, is it access to CL5 potions of enlarge person (with the attendant 5 minute duration and dispel DC?)
TetsujinOni
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... Right, and I'm trying to establish from someone official so you don't need to comment further that it should in fact be considered the CL5 version so that the chronicles don't need changes to make sense and not confuse players into thinking that enlarge person should cost 250 gp as a potion in PFRPG. Right now it's a small problem that exists on multiple chronicles, and I'd like to get the path of least resistance fix officially blessed.
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Items on chronicle sheets are allowed to break the usual rules on how you can buy items.
In other words, if it is on the chronicle sheet, you don't need Fame to buy it.
Additionally, there will be wands with less than 50 charges for a pro-rated cost.
So yes, the CL5 potion of enlarge person would work exactly like the pathfinder version of enlarge person cast by a 5th level caster.
I don't know why you need someone official to answer this, as there really isn't any reason to think it should work otherwise.
Regardless of the 3.0/3.5 mistake, it is currently still a CL5 potion of enlarge person and should work accordingly.
TetsujinOni
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So yes, the CL5 potion of enlarge person would work exactly like the pathfinder version of enlarge person cast by a 5th level caster.I don't know why you need someone official to answer this, as there really isn't any reason to think it should work otherwise.
Regardless of the 3.0/3.5 mistake, it is currently still a CL5 potion of enlarge person and should work accordingly.
Prince of Augustana, subtier 1-2, lists it as Potion of enlarge person (Cost: 250 gp)
So, in keeping with the other items in Season 0 on chronicles, it fails to list CL when it's a different CL than base. Those other items, however, tend to have other notations that make their minimum CL clear (i.e. resist energy (type) (resist value) (cost) ). This isn't the case for these potions and I'd like to clear that up for my players when they choose whether to use their always-available access to level 1 potions or laugh at the chronicle sheet....
That clear up the reason it's an official answer I'm looking for, Andrew?
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Minimum CL is always clear. It's the lowest level needed to cast the spell. It looks like you are over-thinking the problem. That said, putting that potion on the Chronicle wasn't the smartest thing to do at the time.
Enlarge Person normally bought as a potion has a minimum CL of 1 (50 gp potion). This chronicle gives you the CL 5 (250 gp) (All it does in this case is make it last 5 minutes instead of 1, pretty usless in most cases). Is that worth a 200 GP difference? Probably not. If I were you and your players I would laugh at the chronicle sheet.
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Minimum CL is always clear. It's the lowest level needed to cast the spell. It looks like you are over-thinking the problem. That said, putting that potion on the Chronicle wasn't the smartest thing to do at the time.
Sure it was, back in 3.5, when the rules were different.
Enlarge Person normally bought as a potion has a minimum CL of 1 (50 gp potion). This chronicle gives you the CL 5 (250 gp) (All it does in this case is make it last 5 minutes instead of 1, pretty usless in most cases). Is that worth a 200 GP difference? Probably not. If I were you and your players I would laugh at the chronicle sheet.
Except it doesn't actually say that it's a CL 5 potion, you're just assuming that it is. He's not asking if it's an efficient use of resources, he's asking for clarification on which it really is: A CL1 overpriced potion, or a correctly priced CL5 potion. Laugh all you want, but maybe next time read the question all the way through so you aren't laughing alone. ;)
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And I did read it through Mister Lemur, I just misunderstood *sniff*
:P
Uh huh, sure. :P
I like the Chronicle for Master of the Fallen Fortress. It lets you buy a 9 charge wand of Summon Monster 1, except that you get it a CL3 for the CL1 price. Now that's actually a useful item at low levels. :D
TetsujinOni
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So, I guess I'll mention the full history of this.
In 3.0, you got a 20% increase in size per CL of enlarge person with a minute of duration per CL. So, to get to size large, you needed +100% of your size category, or CL5. For the potion to be worthwhile treasure, it was stated as a 250 gp cost potion in the Potion chart in the 3.0 DMG. There was no rule text explaining the CL=5, expecting you to figure out the correct CL based on the spell entry.
In 3.5, they changed the spell in the PHB but left the potion on the chart at the same cost, again expecting back-derivation to realize that it would be a CL5 potion.
In PFRPG there is no potion costing chart, most potions making some sense at minimum caster level if they would be eligible to be potions at all. The chronicle lists the incorrect price from the chart for a CL/SL1 potion, on a chart that didn't list CL or SL but expected it to be calculated to determine the effects of the potions on the list.
Since this has been one of my minor points of irritation since 3.5 was still a current rule set, I thought I'd take a pass at a windmill and get something that is *sometimes* really useful to have last 50 rounds instead of 10. 50 rounds duration is enough for a multi-fight building clearing entry, 10 rounds is enough for a fight and post-battle cleanup. The other effect of this is increasing the DC of a dispel magic caster level check from 12 to 16. It might shield a more important buff from being dispelled by being the highest CL active spell on a targeted dispel in the in-between levels....
Having the choice of either the 1 or 5 minute duration *is* something that a tactical reach fighter could find useful over their career - 20 foot reach changes fights a lot, so I disagree on the potential utility in a caster-light party. (You could replicate this with multiple level 1 potions, obviously, but it's another option people could have at negligible cost to the campaign).
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Unfortuantely with the time between fight being a more abstract number, I would say that even at 50 rounds it would, most of the time, still be a one fight and done. That would of course be different if it was made apparent that you were pushing into the next fight to keep the Enlarge up. Generally, I assume that a single room sweep takes more than 5 minutes and a floor sweep probably takes more than an hour depending on the circumstances.
In other words it's something I'd expect some table variation on. I'm more than willing to admit that if you stayed in initiative rounds you would probably be right on with the 50 rounds last 2 or even 3 fights. However, I think most groups relax after they have taken the baddies out of a room. While they stay alert they tend to take their time on clean up. Again, I admit this is more my personal play style, but I'm willing to bet that there are others who do the same.
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Season 0 used 3.5 rules, and in 3.5 rules Enlarged person was priced at 250 gp (Even if it was an error).
So It is still listed using the 3.5 rules because all but one scenario have not as of yet been upgraded to PF RPG rules.
You will find a few other loot mistakes on Season 0 scenarios, example Gauntlets of Ogre Str which do not exist in PF.
I just ignore them and move on.
You won't see a correction to the chronicle sheet until it is upgrade to PF.
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During Season 0, potions of enlarge person were brewed by Thierry Peepence, a gnome wizard who set up her shop in the Coins district. Her version of the potion tasted like a dark ale, and it had the incidental effects of making the recipient just a little more ruggedly handsome, producing a gentle sea breeze that would waft the recipient's hair, and gave the recipient a temporary scent reminiscent of a mountain pine forest. They were high-quality potions, and came in distinctive dark-green bottles.
By Season 2, the market supplanted Thierry's potions with those of a trio of half-elf witches. Their potions cost only a fraction of the gnome's, and did only what they advertized: enlarged the drinker. For the vast majority of adventurers, with their "git 'er done" attitude, the new, cheaper potions enjoyed a much higher demand.
Thierry's potions are still available, for the pathfinders who are carefully retracing the adventuring sites from several years' past, but rarer than green slime teeth.
(Common scuttlebutt suggests that Thierry was surprised that her potions enlarged all of the recipient, and kept trying to fine tune the effects.)
TetsujinOni
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Sorry to raise another one then, mark, but to confirm that this doesn't adversely change another item on a season 0 chronicle...
potion of resist energy - cold (30) - caster level should be above 3 to generate the stated effect, caster level is not listed. Caster level = minimum to generate named level of effect, yes?
I note there are similar cases (barkskin +2 potion, iirc, as well, or a shield of faith +3) which state a level of effect and a cost that match to a calculable caster level, but do not state a caster level; for those, the caster level (again, for dispel magic purposes it *is* mechanically relevant) is the minimum to provide the level of effect indicated on the chronicle?
Mark Moreland
Director of Brand Strategy
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
If you buy a potion that specifically mentions an effect that is different from the base, minimum caster level version of the spell, then you get those effects. The format of the sheets changed over the campaign's evolution, which is why they don't explicitly list caster level. Regardless, since the only way to get a potion of resist energy, cold for 30 points is at caster level 11th, then that's the caster level of that item. That is, as long as it costs 1,100 gp. If not then it's an error in the Chronicle sheet and likely something that will get that scenario added to the list of retirees.
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The caster level of any potion in PFS should be the minimum for the effect offered.
If you apply that rule to whatever is being offered (no matter the price listed, even if incorrect) then you can’t go wrong.
If the price is too cheap for the effect offered, then bonus. The chronicle gives you a discount on that item.
If the price is too high for the effect offered, then its likely you should buy it on the market. If you don’t have enough fame, then you can buy it for the additional cost on the chronicle.
TetsujinOni
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Mojo: yeah, it's just an artifact. A potion of lesser restoration is a three-round casting time and costs base in 3.5; the cost is the same in PFRPG.
Thanks for the clarifications, Mark. (I'm hoping the side issues delaying the blog and guide release are over in the webdev side of the office, and that I wasn't distracting from the Real Work ;) )