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In a different thread a message board user posted that it was legal in PFS for the group to pool their money and buy a scroll of Darkvision, Communal for the party magic user to cast on the party.
But the Guide clearly states that the only time party members may pool their resources is:
In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, you may never buy
items from, sell items to, or trade items with another player. You may, however, allow another player to borrow an item for the duration of a scenario. You are also permitted to spend your character’s gold to help a party member purchase spellcasting services such as raise dead or remove disease.
Now the issue here is not the fact that someone else is actually using the item you bought. The issue here is that it is not allowed to pool resources to purchase anything but spellcasting services for a party member that has a condition gained over the course of an adventure.
I didn't want to derail that thread further so I am posting it here for clarification.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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I am not as experienced as you all, but in your example, you are not:
1.buying an item from another player
2.selling an item to another player
3.trading items with another player
Which are the 3 things the quoted text says you cannot do.
And, to me, it lists an example where you CAN pool resources, but it does not say anything about whether that is the ONLY time.
Maybe they clarify it further in a different section of the guide, but based on what Sveden quoted, I see no rules broken by pooling money to buy that scroll.
And on a different note,it also lists in the Guide that a Pathfinder's 3 most important duties are: Explore, Report, COOPERATE.
But it appears that they really don't want you to cooperate, if it is not allowed to pool money for scrolls, etc, that benefit the entire party.
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The problem, Grumpus, is what happens if the scroll doesn't get used in the scenario. Who winds up with it? You can't split the scroll and you can't split the cost of the scroll (for accountability reasons).
Personally, I'd be okay with pooling gold *during* the scenario to obtain the item as long as it was clear that someone (singular character) will wind up paying the full cost of the item by the end of the scenario, regardless of whether it gets used or not. This is for tracking purposes.
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This is a good question and it's not 100% clear from the text Svenden quoted. In the past, two GMs have allowed us to pool resources to purchase scrolls that were used in the scenario.
I think they key is that the item does not persist past the end of the scenario. (But it should be possible to re-sell any item that isn't used however, to partially recover funds).
If this is not allowed it should be, because it makes no sense that one PC should pay for something that benefits the entire party.
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Side question to this. If I use my scroll to help a player, can he pay me back to replace it?
One of the player's characters died during the first encounter of this scenario. As anyone that has played this knows, this scenario is on a timer, so we cannot go back to Absalom and get a raise and then come back.
My character owns and carries a scroll of word of recall set to Absalom. I took my scroll and used it to take myself and his body back, and get him raised. Afterwards we split the cost of a teleport to get back (from above, this is allowed).
The character who died was very grateful, and wanted to purchase a scroll of Word of Recall back for me to replace mine.
Sounds like from above, no dice. That was technically illegal. Even though I helped this player NOT be bored for 4 hours while we completed the rest of the scenario.
If so, then it just promotes me just being an ass and not helping in the future since I was the only one with a way to help.
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By my reading of the Guide, it is very clear. The only time you can pool money is to purchase spellcasting services, which is NOT the same as purchasing spellcasting items. Pool your gold to hire a wizard to cast communal darkvision on the party: no problem. Pool yuor money to buy a scroll of communal darkvision (at half the above cost): Not allowed.
And CRebledo: no, he can't "pay you back". He can, however, buy his own scroll for you to cast on him. People should generally carry scrolls and wands for this exact purpose - it's not up to someone else to spend money to cast spells on you.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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FAQ'd that for you.Thanks?
Its clear as day that this is illegal so I don't feel it needs a FAQ.
Obviously its not nearly as clear as you believe it is. As Grumpus pointed out, pooling money is doing none of the three things listed as not legal to do. And it could be argued that having a scroll scribed for the party could count under the "spellcasting services" since a scroll is a partially cast spell, being a spell completion item. The user of the scroll completes the spell when he uses it. Thus people have FAQ'ed this question.
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Obviously its not nearly as clear as you believe it is. As Grumpus pointed out, pooling money is doing none of the three things listed as not legal to do. And it could be argued that having a scroll scribed for the party could count under the "spellcasting services" since a scroll is a partially cast spell, being a spell completion item. The user of the scroll completes the spell when he uses it. Thus people have FAQ'ed this question.FAQ'd that for you.Thanks?
Its clear as day that this is illegal so I don't feel it needs a FAQ.
Things can be stretched until broken. Calling a party members's use of a scroll "spellcasting services" is a stretch and a half.
Like I said, its clear to me and will not be allowed at my table.
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By my reading of the Guide, it is very clear. The only time you can pool money is to purchase spellcasting services, which is NOT the same as purchasing spellcasting items. Pool your gold to hire a wizard to cast communal darkvision on the party: no problem. Pool yuor money to buy a scroll of communal darkvision (at half the above cost): Not allowed.
And CRobledo: no, he can't "pay you back". He can, however, buy his own scroll for you to cast on him. People should generally carry scrolls and wands for this exact purpose - it's not up to someone else to spend money to cast spells on you.
Actually, the scroll would be twice the cost of hiring the wizard...
For the second part, I think by the literal reading of the rule I will agree that he was not allowed to pay me back. But I hope you realize how awful that is. I'm being actively discouraged to help my party out.
Hopefully by marking the FAQ above we can at least get it looked at.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The problem, Grumpus, is what happens if the scroll doesn't get used in the scenario. Who winds up with it? You can't split the scroll and you can't split the cost of the scroll (for accountability reasons).
We've always allowed it. The scroll must be used or sold by the end of the scenario. If you sell the scroll back, it costs the players a bit of gold, I figure it's the cost of having that extra option during the scenario.
As far as I know, it's ok to spend money during the scenario so long as there is no transfer of items/ wealth. Everyone can spend gold during the scenario.
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I have always understood it to be an extension of the rule that you cannot give gold to another character. Can you gift gold? No. Can you pool resources to purchase scrolls, wands, etc. Not IMO and I don't allow it at my tables. Is it possible I am wrong, perhaps. Does this need an FAQ or at least a response from Mike, probably.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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This DOES need an FAQ or clarification badly! I've seen a number of different rulings on the matter, from the ability to pool party gold to restore a used Scroll of Raise Dead (since it was for the express use of bringing a party member back to life), to the inability to make ANY combined purchase within the scenario.
Personally IMO, parties should be able to pool their money for any purchase within the scenario, but at the end of the scenario the item (if it still exists) MUST be sold back at half its value (or diminished value in the case of wands and other charged items) and the correct percentage of wealth refunded back to the players based upon their percentage of contribution. - GOSH! That'll be alot of math once that comes up :-p
Speaking of spellcasting services... I'm gonnna go start a new thread...
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There's one scenario that I can think of off the top of my head where a Venture Captain actually instructs the PCs in the beginning that they will need to cast three different spells. When I ran this the players debated for some time who would buy scrolls of the spells no-one knew how to cast. Some of the newer players were reluctant at first to spend their resources for something they wouldn't get to reuse. Fortunately the more experienced players realized how little it was in the grand scheme of things and just did it.
In this case I didn't allow them to pool resources for the scrolls. Same for a scroll of Raise Dead (or Greater Heroism, or Barkskin, or etc.) used in the middle of a scenario. But if for some reason they needed to use a scroll to reverse a condition at the end of a scenario I would have allowed it. Usually they can just get the spellcasting service where pooling is explicitly allowed - and cheaper than scrolls - but I'm sure there are cases where they couldn't. I think it's in the spirit of the rule.
This, by the way, is why you don't see PFS clerics or wizards carrying the huge array of scrolls they often do in home games. While having that utility spell available the one time you do need it is great, you're the only one paying for it and it annoys a lot of players that others are "riding their coattails."
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This, by the way, is why you don't see PFS clerics or wizards carrying the huge array of scrolls they often do in home games. While having that utility spell available the one time you do need it is great, you're the only one paying for it and it annoys a lot of players that others are "riding their coattails."
Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that. But then again, my scroll library is for my benefit first, and yours only if it also benefits me in some way. I would certainly expect another player to foot the bill for their own, say, Endure Elements scroll if they knew they were going to an extreme climate.
[/off topic]I FAQ'd it as well, because it does deserve another look. Perhaps with the caveat that the item has to be sold at the end of the scenario for half price, and a reminder that pooling resources doesn't eliminate the fame requirement... That would do nicely.
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FAQ'd that for you.Thanks?
Its clear as day that this is illegal so I don't feel it needs a FAQ.
sorry... I see no way to remove my FAQ mark.
Wait, if it's clear, why ask?
He wasn't asking. He was telling someone else they were, in his opinion, wrong. In the most public way possible. Hence the actual debate on the topic coming as something of a surprise to him.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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This, by the way, is why you don't see PFS clerics or wizards carrying the huge array of scrolls they often do in home games. While having that utility spell available the one time you do need it is great, you're the only one paying for it and it annoys a lot of players that others are "riding their coattails."
The wizard I play has a ton of scrolls I have no problem using them. In fact I usually use several per scenario, and have no problem doing so.