Help de-optimizing my Paladin


Advice


Thulin Nibel
Male Halfling Paladin (Divine Hunter) 10

Crunch:

Favored Class Bonus x10, +1/2 HP Lay on Hands

Str 12
Dex 20 (24)
Con 10
Wis 8
Int 8
Cha 18 (20)

HP 69
AC 30

Feats: Big Game Hunter (Free upbringing)
Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Rapid Shot
Point Blank Shot
Greater Mercy
Precise Shot

Skills: Ride +15
Handle Animal +11
Knowledge Religion +3
Heal +3
Diplomacy +9
(everything else untrained)

EQ: +1 composite longbow
Celestial Armor
Belt of Dex +4
Headband of Cha +2
Cloak of Resistance +1
Ring of Prot +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1

So my guy is a very effective archer, a solid healer, and not much else. I'm about to hit level 11 and I want to branch into some melee combat usefulness. I'm not especially worried about taking more levels of Paladin - in fact I'm pretty much decided my next couple of levels will be some combination of Cavalier (perhaps order of the star to combine with LoH if I'm going to take more than a couple levels) and/or fighter. I'm definitely going to do Ultimate Mercy as my level 11 feat, so I can do the heavy raise dead lifting with it. I'm deciding between mounted combat and twf for my melee preference.

Before someone suggests it, I'm not going dervish dance because it makes no sense fluff-wise. I'm open to doing str at level 12 to qualify for power attack. I was considering Cavalier archetype beast rider or emissary, Fighter archetypes Dragoon, Two-weapon warrior, or mobile fighter. Obviously to take advantage of what my stats are I'd be grabbing finesse at some point. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

EDIT: Forgot to mention I'll soon be able to visit a major city with a solid amount of cash to grab a melee weapon or 2 to do something useful.


The easiest way to "melee" as an archer is with archery, which means the Point Blank Master feat. You can get this with 3 Zen Archer Monk levels or 4+ Fighter levels. Monk may overlap a little too much with the feats you already have, though.

It'll take a while before you can make actual melee-combat viable, since you will get finesse at 13 at the earliest unless you dip fighter (and you do want finesse for melee).

Why do you want to go melee? It seems you have neither stats nor feat slots to make it particularly effective?

A somewhat unrelated comment: You should take a look at the Lucky Halfling feat at some point. As a halfling paladin it basically gives one of your allies a get-out-of-jail-free-card once per day, thanks to your ridiculously good saves. It's also a good choice if you want a feat that de-emphasizes your own combat prowess in favor of more party support (my own Halfling Zen Archer 1/Paladin 11 has used it to great effect).


You might want to pick up a belt of con along the way and maybe toughness... you don't have a lot of health though you are 14 HP over average rolls so that is something. Have you considered Agile weapons?


I want to go melee because our only melee is a barbarian who dishes out the beats but receives them as well and burns through my lay on hands and our other healing resources. Because of my need to draw some of the heat I'm already doing a fair amount of firing in melee and just provoking - AC is solid enough that it's not too bad. I may consider point blank master as more of a perk if I do end up taking 4 levels of fighter.

As for how effective it would be, I'd basically only melee against smite targets so as to use those bonuses to offset my lack of supporting feats. One reason I'm thinking of the mounted combat possibility is that it allows for one REALLY hard hit with a lance with a smite with double smite against a BBE outsider, dragon, or undead. Tactically, I play my guy as very brave but not very smart so he lives for moments of glory like that.


Get weapon focus, and then snap shot, so he can shoot in melee. Be up in their faces, threaten, flank with his bow and all that jazz. Then get improved snap shot to threaten at 15 feet, meaning you can start harvesting AoOs. Combine this with Combat Reflexes, and you have some real battlefield control.

Lance charge does not do that much damage inherently, without strength, power attack and a good amount of feats to back it up.


I see your problem: archery is very strong but can become boring.
The easiest thing is grabbing weapon finesse and an agile weapon. Later on get power attack and an agile elven courtblade. This will allow you to fight in melee pretty effectively in just two level of fighter. Consider going into lore master archetype for a couple more skill points (help with the boredom) and later on with maneuvers.


My plan:

Level 11: Fighter (Dragoon)
Bonus Feats: Skill Focus Ride, Mounted Combat. Regular feat: Ultimate Mercy
Level 12: Cavalier (Gendarme/Beast Rider, Order of the Star) Stat bonus: +1 str
Bonus Feat: Power attack
Level 13: Fighter
Feats: Boon Companion, Trick Riding
Level 14: Cavalier
Level 15: Cavalier
Feat: Mounted Skirmisher
Level 16: Cavalier (Strength Raise)
Level 17: Cavalier
Feat: (Extra Lay On Hands, Weapon Finesse, Mounted Archery?) Bonus feat: spirited charge
Level 18: Cavalier
Level 19: Cavalier
Feat: (EWP Elven Curve Blade if finesse at level 17, otherwise the other feat from level 17)
Level 20: Cavalier
Bonus feat: Ride-By-Attack

Opinions/suggestions?


Kamelguru wrote:

Get weapon focus, and then snap shot, so he can shoot in melee. Be up in their faces, threaten, flank with his bow and all that jazz. Then get improved snap shot to threaten at 15 feet, meaning you can start harvesting AoOs. Combine this with Combat Reflexes, and you have some real battlefield control.

Lance charge does not do that much damage inherently, without strength, power attack and a good amount of feats to back it up.

I second this. I think you will be more satisfied with this combination. Basically you become a character with reach.

Lantern Lodge

Corlindale wrote:
The easiest way to "melee" as an archer is with archery, which means the Point Blank Master feat. You can get this with 3 Zen Archer Monk levels or 4+ Fighter levels.

Heck in my normal PFS group our zen archer IS our melee guy lol!

Point Blank Master and Snap Shot are the way to go. I'd grab four levels of fighter (weapon master). You'll lose some pally abilities but will gain +1 attack/+3 damage making your slaughtering smite even better and two feats (not including weapon spec.).


I appreciate the suggestions about snap shot options, but it's not the way I want to go. Any thoughts about the mounted build I've posted and chosen to go with?

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