Bull, get the illegals OUT, not give them more
We do cut back on the breeding. Birthrates drop with education and opportunity.Of course, conservatives want to cut back on that cheap, available contraception. And the sex education.
Seriously, the best way to reduce birth rates is to send women to college. Want the illegals to stop breeding? Send all their women to college. The majority of single child families that I know, the mother went to college. Statistic bear this out as well.
Single women, 25-29 who have a college degree, have a birth rate of something like 30/1,000. High school or less is around 180/1000. A single year of college reduces birth rates to BELOW replacement levels.
Just out of curiosity, what part of these statistics is bull. Please be specific as possible. Was it their methodology, their sampling... what exactly makes my premise false?
A single year of college education, regardless of ethnicity, reduces birth rates to below population replacement. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
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It's not that they can get paperwork in Spanish (I don't mind that at all) it's that they (the ones I don't like) don't want to learn English so that when they deal with the natives (AKA me and others who were born here) they can speak the local language.
This is my home I should not have to learn Spanish just to deal with a minority of newcomer immigrants.
Besides plenty of nations have official languages, I don't see what's wrong with having one.
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Bull, get the illegals OUT, not give them more
We do cut back on the breeding. Birthrates drop with education and opportunity.Of course, conservatives want to cut back on that cheap, available contraception. And the sex education.
Seriously, the best way to reduce birth rates is to send women to college. Want the illegals to stop breeding? Send all their women to college. The majority of single child families that I know, the mother went to college. Statistic bear this out as well.
Single women, 25-29 who have a college degree, have a birth rate of something like 30/1,000. High school or less is around 180/1000. A single year of college reduces birth rates to BELOW replacement levels.
Just out of curiosity, what part of these statistics is bull. Please be specific as possible. Was it their methodology, their sampling... what exactly makes my premise false?
A single year of college education, regardless of ethnicity, reduces birth rates to below population replacement. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
If they are not here birthrate is meaningless. Not being here at all makes them add less to the population than any reduction in birthrate.
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Except that they have come to my home and expect me to change when they are the new kids, this was my home first. When in Rome do as the Romans do.Dude, unless your profile is out of date or incorrect you've got that backwards. Texas was Mexico until Austin and Dallas and their buddies decided they didn't want to be illegal immigrants in Mexico anymore.
They were invited and relatively happy to stay Mexican...right up until Mexico decided they couldn't have slaves anymore. Then these aptly-named freedom fighters took up arms.
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Except that they have come to my home and expect me to change when they are the new kids, this was my home first. When in Rome do as the Romans do.Dude, unless your profile is out of date or incorrect you've got that backwards. Texas was Mexico until Austin and Dallas and their buddies decided they didn't want to be illegal immigrants in Mexico anymore.
By home I meant the USA, I have lived everywhere from NH to SD to TX and many places in between, TX is just current.
Use media to push 'Pluralism' as 'critical' thinking and emphasize that if its not the 'right' view then its 'wrong' and possibly 'evil' to hold an alternate point of view.
Pluralism? Please elaborate.
If they are not here birthrate is meaningless. Not being here at all makes them add less to the population than any reduction in birthrate.Bull, get the illegals OUT, not give them more
We do cut back on the breeding. Birthrates drop with education and opportunity.Of course, conservatives want to cut back on that cheap, available contraception. And the sex education.
Seriously, the best way to reduce birth rates is to send women to college. Want the illegals to stop breeding? Send all their women to college. The majority of single child families that I know, the mother went to college. Statistic bear this out as well.
Single women, 25-29 who have a college degree, have a birth rate of something like 30/1,000. High school or less is around 180/1000. A single year of college reduces birth rates to BELOW replacement levels.
Just out of curiosity, what part of these statistics is bull. Please be specific as possible. Was it their methodology, their sampling... what exactly makes my premise false?
A single year of college education, regardless of ethnicity, reduces birth rates to below population replacement. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
We've spent $90 billion over the past 10 years and we still haven't kept them out. The "try to keep them out" hasn't worked. Why are you advocating something we've been doing and we can already see the evidence that it doesn't work.
That same money, if spent on college, could send 4.1 million people to college for one year. There's an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants in this country and Hispanics with a high school diploma or less have a birth rate around 200/1000. If you give them one year of college, it drops to less than 40/1000.
If you really want to change the demographics of this country, border security is NOT the answer. These people live in areas that are extremely dangerous and poor. Their lives are already at risk in their home countries and even if they are safe, there often isn't much in the way of opportunity. Cost/benefit wise, they are still better off coming here on the off-chance that they don't get caught. No matter what penalty you attack to illegal immigration, as long as their is a huge disparity between neighboring countries it will always happen.
We've tried prevention, it doesn't work. I'm a rule of law guy too, I'd like it if people obeyed it more. This rule isn't working though, it isn't stopping the behavior and trying to enforce it is only costing us money, but it doesn't stop the problem.
Besides, I like the poem referenced at Ellis Island.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
If we aren't the Land of Opportunity, than American Exceptionalism is dead. You can't be the Land of Opportunity when you turn people away at the gate.
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Andrew R,
To quote Hitchens, "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed the same way." If you want to be taken seriously, you need to back your claims up. I doubt you'll persuade many people, either, but you'll be taken more seriously an dnot just a ranting, racist troll.
I didn't see anything racist about Andrew's posts.
Your is nice the majority of the time, but sometimes one can see what is about to happen because a pattern is visible to their point of view rather then a specific absolute evidence.
This is similar to judging where a rock will land without depth perception, from the side you can guess pretty accurately how far the rock will go even if you can't specifically state why (you can see the arc of the rock), where as from the front it is much harder (you can see the rock up and down but that's it). Therefore, sometimes all you can really say is "check my POV and give a reason to believe otherwise."
Sociology and psychology are very much a nearly pure study of patterns rather then absolute, provable details. People each express the details differently, so making judgements based on those details is misleading. Every tree has a trunk, branches, and leaves, yet you can not look specifically at the exact spot the leaves grow in, because every tree is different, you have to stand back and look at the pattern as whole to see the similarities and spot the pattern.
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If they are not here birthrate is meaningless. Not being here at all makes them add less to the population than any reduction in birthrate.Bull, get the illegals OUT, not give them more
We do cut back on the breeding. Birthrates drop with education and opportunity.Of course, conservatives want to cut back on that cheap, available contraception. And the sex education.
Seriously, the best way to reduce birth rates is to send women to college. Want the illegals to stop breeding? Send all their women to college. The majority of single child families that I know, the mother went to college. Statistic bear this out as well.
Single women, 25-29 who have a college degree, have a birth rate of something like 30/1,000. High school or less is around 180/1000. A single year of college reduces birth rates to BELOW replacement levels.
Just out of curiosity, what part of these statistics is bull. Please be specific as possible. Was it their methodology, their sampling... what exactly makes my premise false?
A single year of college education, regardless of ethnicity, reduces birth rates to below population replacement. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
We've spent $90 billion over the past 10 years and we still haven't kept them out. The "try to keep them out" hasn't worked. Why are you advocating something we've been doing and we can already see the evidence that it doesn't work.
That same money, if spent on college, could send 4.1 million people to college for one year. There's an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants in this country and Hispanics with a high school diploma or less have a birth rate around 200/1000. If you give them one year of college, it drops to less than 40/1000.
If you really want to change the demographics of this country, border security is NOT the...
What I suggest is to significantly penalize any american to house or employ them. What we have NOT done is focus on what brings them here, take away the gov. goodies and fine the ass off any american to encourage it. Say $10,000 per illegal per day to anyone caught housing or hiring them. They will go home without the cost of deportation or border wars
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Racism is judging someone based on race, I didn't anyone saying anything about race.
The only thing upon which an individual should be judged, is their actions, decisions, and sometimes the ability to perform(only when choosing someone to perform something)
Racism is not bowing to liberal pressure to give greater status to anything non-white apparently. Treating everyone equal and judging actions alone is now racist.
...fine the ass off any american to encourage it. Say $10,000 per illegal per day to anyone caught housing or hiring them. They will go home without the cost of deportation or border wars
So...what about property rights? Are we going to have a giant government agency to search everyone's property, and to levy and collect fines? That sure sounds like a good use of resources, to say nothing about government overreach, illegal search, etc.
You know what I like best about you, Andrew? Your views aren't even internally consistent. It makes for great comic relief.
Racism is not bowing to liberal pressure to give greater status to anything non-white apparently. Treating everyone equal and judging actions alone is now racist.
The scary part is...I think you actually believe this. :(
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...fine the ass off any american to encourage it. Say $10,000 per illegal per day to anyone caught housing or hiring them. They will go home without the cost of deportation or border warsSo...what about property rights? Are we going to have a giant government agency to search everyone's property, and to levy and collect fines? That sure sounds like a good use of resources, to say nothing about government overreach, illegal search, etc.
You know what I like best about you, Andrew? Your views aren't even internally consistent. It makes for great comic relief.
I think you are putting words in people mouths, he didn't say "have someone searching for them" all the time like that, it would be done just like investigating any other crime, if they believe you are hiding illegals then the get a warrant and come find out.
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Racism is not bowing to liberal pressure to give greater status to anything non-white apparently. Treating everyone equal and judging actions alone is now racist.The scary part is...I think you actually believe this. :(
What i believe is judging actions alone, not gender , race religion, sexuality, etc. Is that really so wrong in your world?
I think you are putting words in people mouths, he didn't say "have someone searching for them" all the time like that, it would be done just like investigating any other crime, if they believe you are hiding illegals then the get a warrant and come find out.
No, he said fine that ass off of any American who does it. That implies we have to actually look for them.
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What I suggest is to significantly penalize any american to house or employ them. What we have NOT done is focus on what brings them here, take away the gov. goodies and fine the ass off any american to encourage it. Say $10,000 per illegal per day to anyone caught housing or hiring them. They will go home without the cost of deportation or border warsActually the government goodies are far less of an enticement than the pay.
If you want to cut back on illegal immigration punish their employers. And give the workers they hire incentive to report them.
Off the top of my head: Jail terms for anyone responsible for knowingly hiring undocumented workers. Violation of employment laws (pay below minimum wage, wage theft, lack of overtime, etc) shall be considered evidence the employer knew they were illegal. Green card for any undocumented worker who reports an employer convicted under this.
If that was enforced, employers would be scared as hell to hire illegals and would have to treat any they might hire legally, which defeats a lot of the purpose of using them in the first place.
Of course, for the record, illegal immigration is down over the last few years, so another way would just be to trash our economy. Perhaps Republicans are working on this, after all.
Did you read what i wrote? I SAID to go after the americans hiring and housing. Punishing the illegals is useless, the americans facing huge fines and jail time actually have something to fear.
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I think you are putting words in people mouths, he didn't say "have someone searching for them" all the time like that, it would be done just like investigating any other crime, if they believe you are hiding illegals then the get a warrant and come find out.No, he said fine that ass off of any American who does it. That implies we have to actually look for them.
Or when it comes to light. we fine ANY speeding driver but do we really follow every car just in case. Christ please tell me you are smarter than to try to make this into something it isn't just to force the narrative into supporting your view
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What i believe is judging actions alone, not gender , race religion, sexuality, etc. Is that really so wrong in your world?
Nope.
What's delusional is believing that there is a "liberal" conspiracy to do otherwise. You lash out a lot at "the liberals," but almost never for anything anyone I know who self-identifies as liberals actually believes.
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I think you are putting words in people mouths, he didn't say "have someone searching for them" all the time like that, it would be done just like investigating any other crime, if they believe you are hiding illegals then the get a warrant and come find out....fine the ass off any american to encourage it. Say $10,000 per illegal per day to anyone caught housing or hiring them. They will go home without the cost of deportation or border warsSo...what about property rights? Are we going to have a giant government agency to search everyone's property, and to levy and collect fines? That sure sounds like a good use of resources, to say nothing about government overreach, illegal search, etc.
You know what I like best about you, Andrew? Your views aren't even internally consistent. It makes for great comic relief.
That is how they "win" a discussion, by telling you what you REALLY said.....
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What i believe is judging actions alone, not gender , race religion, sexuality, etc. Is that really so wrong in your world?Nope.
What's delusional is believing that there is a "liberal" conspiracy to do otherwise. You lash out a lot at "the liberals," but almost never for anything anyone I know who self-identifies as liberals actually believes.
And yet it is always liberals that cry out racism any time anyone says anything that MIGHT involve a minority. It is a sad tactic to silence the opposition. My stance agianst illegal immigration applies just as much to irish in boston as it does canadians in michigan or mexican in texas. But it must be because of racism that i just have it in for brown folks according to every liberal i talk to.
Or when it comes to light. we fine ANY speeding driver but do we really follow every car just in case. Christ please tell me you are smarter than to try to make this into something it isn't just to force the narrative into supporting your view
You said it would be a great idea to fine the crap ($10,000 a day, I think?) out of any American housing an illegal immigrant. Heck, you didn't even specify knowingly. So when your new friend crashes on the couch, you'd better ask for his papers!
Not only is that crazy, but it represents a tyrannical disregard for the rights of our citizens -- the group you purport to be protecting.
That is how they "win" a discussion, by telling you what you REALLY said.....
Ah, so I'm one of "them" now? Do I get a membership card?
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No, he said fine that ass off of any American who does it. That implies we have to actually look for them.Or when it comes to light. we fine ANY speeding driver but do we really follow every car just in case. Christ please tell me you are smarter than to try to make this into something it isn't just to force the narrative into supporting your view
You said it would be a great idea to fine the crap ($10,000 a day, I think?) out of any American housing an illegal immigrant. Heck, you didn't even specify knowingly. So when your new friend crashes on the couch, you'd better ask for his papers!
Not only is that crazy, but it represents a tyrannical disregard for the rights of our citizens -- the group you purport to be protecting.
We now have a right to harbor criminals?
Yes we need a system to check for legal status before renting/leasing. And hiring. not that damn hard. Hell my apartment demanded a copy of my ID as part of the lease. Places that ask no questions know who they are serving.
Yes we need a system to check for legal status before renting/leasing. And hiring. not that damn hard. Hell my apartment demanded a copy of my ID as part of the lease. Places that ask no questions know who they are serving.
That's not what you said. You said ALL Americans. You didn't say anything about commercial transactions, or whether or not one had probable cause to expect someone was here illlegally.
I repeat: Your proposal would literally have me checking the papers of someone who comes over and crashes on my couch. Do you really think the government inciting that kind of paranoia among the citizenry is the answer?
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Yes we need a system to check for legal status before renting/leasing. And hiring. not that damn hard. Hell my apartment demanded a copy of my ID as part of the lease. Places that ask no questions know who they are serving.That's not what you said. You said ALL Americans. You didn't say anything about commercial transactions, or whether or not one had probable cause to expect someone was here illlegally.
I repeat: Your proposal would literally have me checking the papers of someone who comes over and crashes on my couch. Do you really think the government inciting that kind of paranoia among the citizenry is the answer?
Sigh. Ok then since it is illegal to have drugs in your house to the cops show up to check every day? Do you really think we would have them check the ID of every guest? This is nothing but an insane attempt to blow something out of proportion to try to make it look worse. We do not and should not care about checking for ID about who is on your couch than we do checking on weather or not every girl you take home from the bar is 18 but YOU should take care not to knowingly or with intentional ignorance
take home illegals (or bang the girl of questionable age) because it might be a problem if something happens and you do get into it. Know your friends, it is no more burden then knowing what you sleep with.That said yes, my focus is with LIVING in a building not who is there overnight. ID checks for ALL rentals/leases and the ability to prove who you are leasing to and proof they are legal.
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Did you read what i wrote? I SAID to go after the americans hiring and housing. Punishing the illegals is useless, the americans facing huge fines and jail time actually have something to fear.What I suggest is to significantly penalize any american to house or employ them. What we have NOT done is focus on what brings them here, take away the gov. goodies and fine the ass off any american to encourage it. Say $10,000 per illegal per day to anyone caught housing or hiring them. They will go home without the cost of deportation or border warsActually the government goodies are far less of an enticement than the pay.
If you want to cut back on illegal immigration punish their employers. And give the workers they hire incentive to report them.
Off the top of my head: Jail terms for anyone responsible for knowingly hiring undocumented workers. Violation of employment laws (pay below minimum wage, wage theft, lack of overtime, etc) shall be considered evidence the employer knew they were illegal. Green card for any undocumented worker who reports an employer convicted under this.
If that was enforced, employers would be scared as hell to hire illegals and would have to treat any they might hire legally, which defeats a lot of the purpose of using them in the first place.
Of course, for the record, illegal immigration is down over the last few years, so another way would just be to trash our economy. Perhaps Republicans are working on this, after all.
I was largely agreeing with you. Just proposing a more detailed mechanism focusing on employment, which is the driver. And more importantly proposing a mechanism to get actual reports on such employers.
Ok sounded like you were implying that i was NOT targeting employers. I think a cash incentive for whistleblowers with actual results might not be a bad idea too.
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What do you think of the (proposed?) laws in some states that would penalize anyone sheltering, transporting or aiding illegals? Not just hiring or renting to, but letting them into the homeless shelter, giving them a ride, feeding them at the soup kitchen etc? Shall we check ids for everything? And among a population that's least likely to have identification?
Giving them food or letting them crash overnight not really and not for shelters/soup kitchens but watching for a pattern of someone housing suspected illegals in their own home or transporting them (especially in groups) repeatedly warrents investigation.
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Sigh. Ok then since it is illegal to have drugs in your house to the cops show up to check every day? Do you really think we would have them check the ID of every guest? This is nothing but an insane attempt to blow something out of proportion to try to make it look worse.Arizona was trying to pass laws to this effect, to allow police to demand immigration papers from anyone they chose, until SCOTUS smacked it down. This isn't a hypothetical situation.
That is pushing what we can allow but would be effective. If every citizen could easily get free ID it would be much less an issue.
Andrew, people can't read your mind. People taking what you say literally isn't a liberal conspiracy to distort your words and discredit you. There is no "them."
Personally? I think you're certifiable, and shame on me for responding to you in the first place.
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Ok sounded like you were implying that i was NOT targeting employers. I think a cash incentive for whistleblowers with actual results might not be a bad idea too.Cash incentive won't help much if they'll just be deported when they go to the authorities.
That's the big problem with employing undocumented workers. They don't dare complain about how they're paid or treated since they can be deported if they report anything. This makes them very attractive employees. You have to take that away. Offer them a way to stay and they'll seek out employers to turn in.
It is for legal workers and people outside of that workplace that see it. And for someone that would rather get deported cash in hand then deal with a dick boss. Maybe even offer that we do not deport the whistleblower, but not actually allow him to stay. kinda like how some illegal activity from police snitches gets overlooked.
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Andrew, people can't read your mind. People taking what you say literally isn't a liberal conspiracy to distort your words and discredit you. There is no "them."
Personally? I think you're certifiable, and shame on me for responding to you in the first place.
Aww and tactic number 2 to quiet differing opinions, insult them and call them crazy. Playbook is being followed word for word, although you are right it is not exclusively liberal. Liberals just go for racism and homophobe like conservative tend to go for unpatriotic and anti christian.
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And for someone that would rather get deported cash in hand then deal with a dick boss.Also, unicorns.
Aww and tactic number 2 to quiet differing opinions, insult them and call them crazy.There is no conspiracy to silence you, man. You just say weird crap and never back it up with anything. You've got the discrediting covered.
The silencing tactics are thrown into every topic by many sides. you would have to be an idiot or agree with it not to notice.
Just to make this clear...
You think our society would be better if everyone was forced to carry around ID and had to present it to engage in a transaction?
How is this not a Big Brother style of government?
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Just to make this clear...
You think our society would be better if everyone was forced to carry around ID and had to present it to engage in a transaction?
How is this not a Big Brother style of government?
To get a job, credit, drivers licence and rent/ lease pretty much all already DO require an ID unless they KNOW their target audience won't and cannot get one to prove identity and legal status. I simply want that law for them all to stop aiding illegals. I thought you were one big on controlling guns, did that not require a proof of id or more?