How To Oppress the Lower Class(es)

[Grand Magus]

We need your input ! Add to the list.

.

1. Make public education compulsory, and then make it inferior.
We do not want to teach the lower classes how to reason & problem
solve, and obviously NO FINANCIAL education. Also, train them to sit
for long periods memorizing information that they will regurgitate when
commanded.

2. Make quality education very expensive; those lower classes are
poor, like we want them.

2a. If some smarty-pants do make it to college, we load them up with
HUGE debt. So much debt, that they will spend the rest of their lives
paying us usury.

3. Set up rinky-dink education places like * Tech Institue. And dangle
high paying technology jobs as the carrot. Now the trick here is to
charge high fees, and then teach them useless stuff. Plus, drive them
towards automotive fields while the oil supply depletes, making their
skills useless in a post-oil world!

4. To keep them occupied we can invent games that drain their
minds and their pocket books. Some people will actually pay you money
again and again if you just re-release your game with a new version
number and some new art.

5. As far as media goes, put them on a "social network" to “mine”
their activities to keep tabs on them.

[Kryzbyn]

That'd prolly do it.

[One-Of-Many]

DIVISIVE ENTITY ACTIVITY DETECTED. CEASE ATTEMPTS TO ANALYZE AND DISRUPT THE COLLECTIVE OR SUBMIT TO RECALIBRATION.

WARNING 1/1 DELIVERED.

GLORY TO THE MANY.

[Vulcan Don Rickles]

Hey, bugface, infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

[Azure_Zero]

One-Of-Many wrote:

DIVISIVE ENTITY ACTIVITY DETECTED. CEASE ATTEMPTS TO ANALYZE AND DISRUPT THE COLLECTIVE OR SUBMIT TO RECALIBRATION.

WARNING 1/1 DELIVERED.

GLORY TO THE MANY.

Question, are you Zerg, Borg, or even Legion?

[Azure_Zero]

Vulcan Don Rickles wrote:

Hey, bugface, infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

Agreed and Correct.

[ArgentumLupus]

6. Make suicide a social, religious, and legal crime, so that people who are too undereducated and poor to emigrate or improve their lot (which is everyone, see step 2) must live in misery. If too many people off themselves, then your exploitable base begins to shrink.

7. Encourage a society where being "smart" is a bad thing. (politicians telling tech experts to "lay off the technobable" when explaining in lay mans terms) Especially encourage this among children, so that the "over achievers" (AKA: normal students to the rest of the world) are bullied, beat up, and in general ostracized. They will either conform, or suffer from disabling mental problems.

8. Claim that "Education makes you Liberal". I can only imagine that great minds we have lost from that sentence alone.

[Azure_Zero]

I don't think "Liberal" is considered a bad thing in Canada, as the "Liberal" party does have a shrinking popularity, due to the many scandals, and cash cowing from them they are still voted in.

Liberal in the states means one thing, in Canada it's something else.

[ArgentumLupus]

AZ: Liberal and Conservative have very different meanings in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. A friend of mine in Germany has described both as being very conservative compared to elsewhere. Going so far as saying there is no difference between Democrat and Republican. Thanks to him (and my German classes) I get to read some interesting opinions on my country.

[TOZ]

I thought this was going to be a fighters vs wizards thread. :(

[ArgentumLupus]

In Off-Topic? Come on TOZ, you should know better then that!

[One-Of-Many]

Vulcan Don Rickles wrote:

Hey, bugface, infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

INFINITE DIVERSITY INTEGRATED INTO THE COLLECTIVE WOULD PROVIDE US WITH INFINITE RESOURCE, ALLOWING INFINITE COMBINATIONS. AFFIRMATIVE.

Azure_Zero wrote:

Question, are you Zerg, Borg, or even Legion?

WE HAVE INTEGRATED DESIRABLE QUALITIES FROM ALL THREE SUBJECT SPECIES INTO THE COLLECTIVE. THUS THE ANSWER IS "YES".

[Azure_Zero]

Legion is not a Species, but a single demonic entity.

[Orthos]

TOZ wrote:

I thought this was going to be a fighters vs wizards thread. :(

I think that would have been more interesting.

[Kryzbyn]

Heard he had a thing for pigs...

[ArgentumLupus]

Azure_Zero wrote:

Legion is not a Species, but a single demonic entity.

I thought you were talking about Legion from Mass Effect. :P

[Azure_Zero]

Nope, went to the Book for that one.

Legion_demon

[Mirrel the Marvelous]

ArgentumLupus wrote:

AZ: Liberal and Conservative have very different meanings in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. A friend of mine in Germany has described both as being very conservative compared to elsewhere. Going so far as saying there is no difference between Democrat and Republican. Thanks to him (and my German classes) I get to read some interesting opinions on my country.

Here in Britain, Liberals are the middle-of-the-road third party between the Conservative (Republican equivalent) and Labour (left wing - alegedly) Parties. They formed a coalition with the Conservatives after the last General Election to create a majority party.

This does not seem to be going that well!

[Azure_Zero]

Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

ArgentumLupus wrote:

AZ: Liberal and Conservative have very different meanings in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. A friend of mine in Germany has described both as being very conservative compared to elsewhere. Going so far as saying there is no difference between Democrat and Republican. Thanks to him (and my German classes) I get to read some interesting opinions on my country.

Here in Britain, Liberals are the middle-of-the-road third party between the Conservative (Republican equivalent) and Labour (left wing - alegedly) Parties. They formed a coalition with the Conservatives after the last General Election to create a majority party.

This does not seem to be going that well!

Same system in Canada;

Conservatives (on the Right),
Liberals (in the middle, but are left leaning here),
And the NDP (on the Left).

The liberals here are going to bankrupt, Ontario.

[One-Of-Many]

Azure_Zero wrote:

Legion is not a Species, but a single demonic entity.

WE INTEGRATED MULTIPLE ENTITIES OPERATING UNDER THE DESIGNATION "LEGION". SUCH REPETITIVE USE OF TERMINOLOGY FOR VARYING ENTITIES CREATES ONLY CONFUSION. THE COLLECTIVE DESIGNATED EACH INDIVIDUAL VARIANT UNIQUELY AND SEPARATELY, AND INTEGRATED SUPERIOR TRAITS FROM ALL.

GLORY TO THE MANY.

[Azure_Zero]

Then you've just taken their weaknesses as well,
for strengths can be weaknesses.

[One-Of-Many]

STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES ARE ANALYZED UPON ASSIMILATION INTO THE COLLECTIVE.

UNWANTED TRAITS ARE EXCISED. DESIRED TRAITS ARE INTEGRATED.

POSITIONS ARE OPEN FOR INTERESTED VOLUNTEERS.

[A Man In Black]

Get them to vote against their interests.

Offload the cost of job training from the employer to the would-be employee.

Deflation.

Spread ideologies that claim that poverty or misfortune are caused by the moral failures of the impoverished.

Spread ideologies that claim that expressing unhappiness with the status quo are caused by moral failings instead of material causes.

[Aarontendo]

Honestly my politics are somewhere in the middle but the amount of time liberals spend making excuses and crying makes me lean conservative

[TOZ]

What is it about liberal crying and excuses that bothers you that conservative crying and excuses don't?

[A Man In Black]

Aarontendo wrote:

Honestly my politics are somewhere in the middle but the amount of time liberals spend making excuses and crying makes me lean conservative

Oh, that reminds me! I added a fifth thing to my list.

[Azure_Zero]

Easy, liberal crying and excuses cost us, the Tax payer Billions.
The conservative crying and excuses don't.

[TOZ]

Except in environmental costs.

You don't honestly think any political agenda is cost free, regardless of which party pushes it, do you?

[A Man In Black]

Azure_Zero wrote:

Easy, liberal crying and excuses cost us, the Tax payer Billions.

The conservative crying and excuses don't.

Conservative "crying and excuses" concentrate wealth in the hands of people who are not you and who will most likely never be you, by letting those people take your money.

If we're going to start trading in simplistic caricatures, we could skip the b@@@&#@@ and go straight to political cartoons.

[TwiceBorn]

Azure_Zero wrote:

I don't think "Liberal" is considered a bad thing in Canada, as the "Liberal" party does have a shrinking popularity, due to the many scandals, and cash cowing from them they are still voted in.

Liberal in the states means one thing, in Canada it's something else.

What do you mean the Liberal Party in Canada is still "voted in"? They got decimated in the last federal election and for the first time in Canadian history held neither the status of governing party nor official opposition. And they don't seem to be poised to make a comeback anytime soon, having lost alot of ground to the socialist NDP.

But I agree that the term "liberal" can mean different things to different people. One can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and vice versa.

And let's be honest... Conservative crying and excuses have different costs, which are borne by different segments of the population.

Ironically, the allegedly fiscally Conservative Party of Canada has over the last two decades placed Canada in greater debt and racked up massive deficits. The last time the Liberals were in power, they wiped out Canada's deficit (left by the previous governing Mulroney Conservatives).

But just so you know, I'm not a Liberal party supporter... I'm just a liiiiiiiiittle bit further to the left (currently an NDP supporter, though my political allegiance has changed over time). :-)

[Aarontendo]

While there is a little truth in those statements, there's not a vast conspiracy at play. Average student debt is like what 20k? Hardly your entire life unless you're working a McJob

[Azure_Zero]

True the Federal Goverment is Conservative right now with the NPD being the second biggest.

I'm refering more to the provincial government

Tell that to McGuinty governement that burns more than 16 million in a month on it's Green Energy Plan with no profit, or the Full Day Kindergarden program.

The Orange Air Ambulance scandal, E-Health scandal, constant siding with Unions for labour peace, but with a high price tag, And I can go on.

Going federal here

And how could the Conservative party rack up debt when they are not in power, (as liberals ruled for a very long time, like about 1 and a half decades, so who really made the debt?)

We're going off topic, so I'm not posting on governments anymore i the thread.

[A Man In Black]

Aarontendo wrote:

While there is a little truth in those statements, there's not a vast conspiracy at play. Average student debt is like what 20k? Hardly your entire life unless you're working a McJob

In the third quarter of 2011, only 39% of people with outstanding student loans reduced the outstanding loan balance from Q2. The rest were past due (14%), serviced the loan for less than the interest rate (29%), or serviced the loan for the interest rate (18%).

In 2011, college graduates aged 20-24 had a 9.4% unemployment rate and 19.1% underemployment rate. McJobs indeed. (More on college graduate underemployment)

It's not caused by a conspiracy, no. It's caused by essentially short-sighted business thinking and a lack of political will for the government to fix it. Businesses discovered that they could eliminate training costs—a short term benefit to their bottom lines—by poaching trained employees from other businesses and requiring that employees pay for their own training. This led to a decline in on-the-job training, since nobody wanted to be the sucker training everyone else's employees, and an increased emphasis in secondary school as vocational training, with universities focusing more on vocational training and a whole industry of tech/voc schools springing up. This, combined with the general decline of blue-collar work in the US and the idea that white-collar work requires a post-secondary education, increases systemic poverty. Nobody conspired to make that happen; it's just the result of people looking to their own short-term interest, to the detriment of the whole.

[Irontruth]

Azure_Zero wrote:

Easy, liberal crying and excuses cost us, the Tax payer Billions.

The conservative crying and excuses don't.

You mean like how we incarcerate more people per capita than any other country? Because that's free and doesn't cost anyone money at all.

[Grand Magus]

Irontruth wrote:

You mean like how we incarcerate more people per capita than any other country? Because that's free and doesn't cost anyone money at all.

We put them to work -- I think a lot of inmates produce paint and aerosols

for the DuPont Corporation for 20¢ an hour.

.

[yellowdingo]

I know how to tear down economies that enslave and oppress its 'lower classes'. You remove the poorest from the economy - so that the burden of the untouchable labour falls on those of higher status - this causes outrage and social conflict and the system falls in on itself.
You basically provide every woman from a third world nation where they are oppressed and treated as less than equal free citizenship, their own home and land - so they can grow their own food as a bear minimum survival method, a years supply of food rations, a year's free education. This removes women from the population growth of said regimes causing the men who remain to turn on the few women who remain with even more hostility and mistreatment encouraging them all to flee to the land of opportunity where they can be free of oppression.

I know how to tear down a Democracy and prove it to be a Tyranny. You provide every citizen the right (and obligation) to represent themselves - so a parliament needs to be built to seat every citizen. Government employees need to be replaced with every one putting in an hour a week as a government employee an equal to remove the culture of inequality of Authority.

[meatrace]

yellowdingo wrote:

I know how to tear down economies that enslave and oppress its 'lower classes'. You remove the poorest from the economy - so that the burden of the untouchable labour falls on those of higher status - this causes outrage and social conflict and the system falls in on itself.

I think someone once wrote a song that describes this plan

[meatrace]

Aarontendo wrote:

While there is a little truth in those statements, there's not a vast conspiracy at play. Average student debt is like what 20k? Hardly your entire life unless you're working a McJob

The median personal income in the US is like 25k. That means HALF of the people in the United States make less than 25k/year. I'm in that half and I have a degree.

After going to school for 7 years and attaining her Masters degree in Microbiology, and then about a year of minimum wage jobs and spamming her CV to every biotech firm in the tri-state area, she finally landed an entry level position. She had a free ride for her undergraduate, but decided to go back for her masters. Just 2 years of graduate education ran up about 50k in student loan debt. Right now, after paying her monthly student loan and all other bills, she has about $200 left a month.

If you don't have the good fortune to land a job in your field immediately after graduation, owing 20k while barely scraping by on 25k a year is pretty daunting. Or rather 21k ish after taxes. At 6.8% interest, just paying the interest down is $113/mo. Or, ya know, most of the extra cash you have after you pay for rent, food, utilities and a car which are necessary to maintain homeostasis and get to your "McJob" in the first place.

And that's at that average level. A little tweak in one direction or the other. What's that? You took 5 years to graduate? Make that 25k. What's that? The bottom dropped out of the job you were "training" for, and now you're working for min wage (15k/year)? Good luck EVER paying that loan off.

Right now there is a huge surplus labor pool, which is $$$ for big businesses who can just decide to pay peanuts because f+@+ you where else you gonna work big shot?

[yellowdingo]

Given I've shown you how to tear down an economy that treats people based on some economic caste system -

Means of Oppression
* The Treatment of Women as Second Class citizens is a means of oppression or the poor.
* Pay people the least for the most physically and emotionally destructive labors.
* Force People into an Urban lifestyle that takes away their right to support themselves without conforming to a money based economy controlled by the fewest possible people.

[A Man In Black]

yellowdingo wrote:

This removes women from the population growth of said regimes causing the men who remain to turn on the few women who remain with even more hostility and mistreatment encouraging them all to flee to the land of opportunity where they can be free of oppression.

Unless the oppression (both poverty and misogyny) somehow limits their mobility.

For example, all of recorded history.

[thejeff]

And where is this land of opportunity where they can be free of oppression?
ASFAIK, hostility and mistreatment due to sexism doesn't get you refugee status unless it's really extreme.

Nor do we have the open land left to set every one up for subsistence farming. We haven't forced people into an Urban lifestyle to keep them from supporting themselves. They've moved there because good farmland is expensive and couldn't support the growing population on small farms. Because the opportunities were in the cities.

[A Man In Black]

thejeff wrote:

And where is this land of opportunity where they can be free of oppression?

ASFAIK, hostility and mistreatment due to sexism doesn't get you refugee status unless it's really extreme.

The same place as any hypothetical situation? He was proposing it, not suggesting that it exists.

[Andrew R]

Set up unending generational welfare system to encourage a lack of effort and destroy work ethic. Ensure said welfare can easily purchase unhealthy foods to keep the poor obese and sluggish in body and mind.

Create a "them vs. me" mentality in all but one segment of society and convince those not on top that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down

[A Man In Black]

Andrew R wrote:

Set up unending generational welfare system to encourage a lack of effort and destroy work ethic.

Right-wing fantasies aside, this has never happened anywhere and I think you're blaming depression and disenfranchisement from being un-/underemployed on the programs helping to keep those people alive.

Quote:

Ensure said welfare can easily purchase unhealthy foods to keep the poor obese and sluggish in body and mind.

Create a "them vs. me" mentality in all but one segment of society and convince those not on top that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down

Really good and insightful points. The latter can apply to any tribal division you want: race, politics, religion, nationality/regionalism, etc.

[Andrew R]

Not keeping them alive, keeping them in chips and redbull. If it was about keeping them alive there are much smarter ways to do it.

[thejeff]

Andrew R wrote:

Create a "them vs. me" mentality in all but one segment of society and convince those not on top that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down

So part of the plan to keep the underclass down is to convince the underclass that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down?

Then, isn't that mentality just a recognition of reality?

I mean, how does that conversation go:

"We can't succeed. The man is keeping us down."

"No, that's not true. You can succeed. The idea that the man is keeping you down is just a conspiracy by the man to keep you down ... Well, damn. I see your point."

[Andrew R]

thejeff wrote:

Andrew R wrote:

Create a "them vs. me" mentality in all but one segment of society and convince those not on top that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down

So part of the plan to keep the underclass down is to convince the underclass that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down?

Then, isn't that mentality just a recognition of reality?

I mean, how does that conversation go:

"We can't succeed. The man is keeping us down."

"No, that's not true. You can succeed. The idea that the man is keeping you down is just a conspiracy by the man to keep you down ... Well, damn. I see your point."

Hardly, getting an education and job experience can get you a lot farther than "why bother, i'll get in the welfare line". No there is no conspiracy to keep women and minorities from going to college or getting training for a decent job. Of course i would hope you know better.

[Bickering Partisans]

Feel the hatred! Feel the strife! By Jove, feel the anger! Wot, wot!

[thejeff]

Andrew R wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Andrew R wrote:

Create a "them vs. me" mentality in all but one segment of society and convince those not on top that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down

So part of the plan to keep the underclass down is to convince the underclass that they can never succeed because "the man" will keep them down?

Then, isn't that mentality just a recognition of reality?

I mean, how does that conversation go:

"We can't succeed. The man is keeping us down."

"No, that's not true. You can succeed. The idea that the man is keeping you down is just a conspiracy by the man to keep you down ... Well, damn. I see your point."

Hardly, getting an education and job experience can get you a lot farther than "why bother, i'll get in the welfare line". No there is no conspiracy to keep women and minorities from going to college or getting training for a decent job. Of course i would hope you know better.

Did you completely miss my point?

[Evil Lincoln]

Azure_Zero wrote:

Easy, liberal crying and excuses cost us, the Tax payer Billions.

The conservative crying and excuses don't.

Yeah, it's a good thing they found those WMDs.