So I am making my first caster ever and I decided on a witch. I am curious about people's thoughts on which witch patrons people recommend. This is for PFS play, so please keep that in mind when responding.
Also, one other quick question I had was about the hexes. Do I get to cast those as many times as I want? I saw the healing had a limit of one per character for every 24 hours, but I didn't see anything else being limited.
Actually here is my build so you can see what I have so far.
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 12
Human
feats Extra hex, Extra hex
Hexes = Misfortune, Cackle, Slumber, Level 2 I am thinking Healing maybe?
I haven't chosen any traits yet, any recommendations on some good ones for a witch?
So I am making my first caster ever and I decided on a witch. I am curious about people's thoughts on which witch patrons people recommend. This is for PFS play, so please keep that in mind when responding.
Also, one other quick question I had was about the hexes. Do I get to cast those as many times as I want? I saw the healing had a limit of one per character for every 24 hours, but I didn't see anything else being limited.
Don't bother with the healing hex in PFS. After your first adventure spend your 2 PA and get a CLW wand just like everybody else does.
The guide to guides has info on witches, with some patron advice. I suggest looking there.
Accursed hex is pretty useful feat to pick up for when your offensive hexes fail the first time.
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If it was for a home game, I would tell you to be sure and check out which deities encompass that domain, so that you would have some ideas about who your patron actually was, but in PFS I don't think the GM will mess with you on that front.
My current character is a witch with the Trickery patron, and I've been very happy with that choice.
Doh, I thought I hid that one so other could not see it.
Actually here is my build so you can see what I have so far.
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 12
Human
feats Extra hex, Extra hex
Hexes = Misfortune, Cackle, Slumber, Level 2 is evil eye or slumber depending on which one I take at level one.
I haven't chosen any traits yet, any recommendations on some good ones for a witch?
I see the Evil eye hex being recommended a lot, I was thinking of maybe delaying the Slumber to level 2 and getting evil eye in it's place, then loading up on the sleep spells while level one.
Actually here is my build so you can see what I have so far.
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 12Human
feats Extra hex, Extra hex
Hexes = Misfortune, Cackle, Slumber, Level 2 is evil eye or slumber depending on which one I take at level one.I haven't chosen any traits yet, any recommendations on some good ones for a witch?
I see the Evil eye hex being recommended a lot, I was thinking of maybe delaying the Slumber to level 2 and getting evil eye in it's place, then loading up on the sleep spells while level one.
I would go for a 20 int. Yes, it's that important to witches.
Slumber should be taken at first level. It ends fights, and is therefore really strong. Evil eye in my experience isn't all that great until level 8 when it become -4. The big disadvantage of evil eye is that it's mind effecting, meaning you can only use it on foes that are suseptible to sleep. In my PFS experience, things are dead well before you have the chance to lay 3 rounds worth of effects on them, so the debuffing chain isn't as good as it seems at first. I would use sleep first on typical mooks. On the obvious big bad guy, use misfortune and then sleep. Versus mind-immune creatures like undead and golems, use misfortune.
Patrons gives some nice spells that you otherwise wouldn't get. If you wish to buff the party and do general things, then time is good. Versus undead, plague is good. For illusion spells, trickery or deception is good.
I would go for a 20 int. Yes, it's that important to witches.
Slumber should be taken at first level. It ends fights, and is therefore really strong.
I agree on the 20 Int, but gotta respectfully disagree on slumber. It only lasts 1 round at level 1, meaning you're unlikely to be able to deliver the coup. Still strong, since they have to waste a move action standing (and maybe eat an AoO), but Evil Eye synergizes with Cackle, can penalize other stats, and has an effect even if they save - helping your party on the whole hit or avoid damage.
Slumber is highly recommended for level 2, though.
Regarding patron, the strongest choices are those that give spells from outside the witch class list (mirror image, invisibility, and haste are good things to look for in PFS play). Some patrons look really fun, but are just made up of a bunch of thematic witch spells you can learn anyway through level advancement / scrolls / other witches' familiars...
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I would go for a 20 int. Yes, it's that important to witches.
Slumber should be taken at first level. It ends fights, and is therefore really strong.
I agree on the 20 Int, but gotta respectfully disagree on slumber. It only lasts 1 round at level 1, meaning you're unlikely to be able to deliver the coup. Still strong, since they have to waste a move action standing (and maybe eat an AoO), but Evil Eye synergizes with Cackle, can penalize other stats, and has an effect even if they save - helping your party on the whole hit or avoid damage.
Slumber is highly recommended for level 2, though.
Regarding patron, the strongest choices are those that give spells from outside the witch class list (mirror image, invisibility, and haste are good things to look for in PFS play). Some patrons look really fun, but are just made up of a bunch of thematic witch spells you can learn anyway through level advancement / scrolls / other witches' familiars...
Slumber also synergizes well with Cackle and makes it an awesome 1 round kill move at first level. Slumber (standard) then cackle (move) drops your target for 2 rounds allowing your party or your familiar to move over and CDG that target on the following round. (Yes my monkey familiar carries a tiny silver plated, cold iron light pick to deliver CDG's with, I find it amusing).
Second, I disagree with your recommendation for why to pick a Patron. Yes getting spells from outside the witch spell list is nice, providing those are spells you actually ever plan to cast.
My recommendation has always been to pick a patron that gives you spells you will want to cast often. Time for instance in PFS gives you access to 5 spells that you will find a way/need to cast every scenario without fail.
Deception on the other hand gives you a bunch of spells you will probably never use but gives you invisibility, is it worth it?
Go for what you want but remember look at the whole lifespan of the character and decide if the patron you get at 1st level is good for you at 10th.
Time for instance in PFS gives you access to 5 spells that you will find a way/need to cast every scenario without fail.
Deception on the other hand gives you a bunch of spells you will probably never use but gives you invisibility, is it worth it?
Time patron standouts 1-12 are haste and teleport (situationally silence). Deception standouts are invisibility and confusion (situationally passwall). Each has a strong spell witches already get, and another strong spell (plus one situationally very nice) they don't. You could make an argument based on the remaining two from each (since the 1st level spell is shared between), but all are spells I could comfortably do without.
Considering haste is one of the major reasons to go for Time, it sounds like you and I agree more than the tone of your post would indicate. Sorry if I misread your intent.
So I have updated my build some now and here is how it looks so far.
Human
Stats (20 Point Buy): Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 20 (Human Bonus), Wis 9, Cha 7
Feats/Hexes
H Extra Hex: Cackle
1 Extra Hex: misfortune
1 Hex: Evil Eye
2 Accursed Hex
3 (not sure yet)
4 Slumber
5 (not sure yet)
Familiar: Compsognathus
Patron: Time
Question: If I want to use a mount, do I need ride or Handle Animal?
Unfortunately, your level 2 pick must be a hex, not a feat. That's why some of us are advocating Slumber at level 2, since you're locked into a subset of choices (feats can give you hexes, but hexes cannot give you feats).
Not a big deal, since you can just use your level 3 feat to get Accursed Hex.
I'm not a big fan of wisdom penalties, since Perception and Will saves work from it. But I did advocate the 20 Int, and I suppose the points have to come from somewhere... decreasing your Dex is an option, since your AC is going to be weak anyway and failing Reflex saves is not as bad as failing Fort/Will - but your choice here.
Regarding mounts, Handle Animal is used in teaching tricks (attack, stay, guard, etc) while Ride is used in combat. As a spellcaster, most Ride checks are unnecessary; moreover, you can buy war-trained animals to ride, negating the need for teaching tricks yourself. Couple that with store-bought mounts becoming untenably fragile in combat after level 4-5 and I'd say you can avoid investing in either unless your GM allows riding exotic mounts or you have one as a class ability.
I am not sure where the discussion on which deities offer the patrons is at. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Second, I disagree with your recommendation for why to pick a Patron. Yes getting spells from outside the witch spell list is nice, providing those are spells you actually ever plan to cast.
My recommendation has always been to pick a patron that gives you spells you will want to cast often. Time for instance in PFS gives you access to 5 spells that you will find a way/need to cast every scenario without fail.
Deception on the other hand gives you a bunch of spells you will probably never use but gives you invisibility, is it worth it?Go for what you want but remember look at the whole lifespan of...
It doesn't cost much to get scrolls of spells you will commonly cast to add them to your spell book, especially low level spells. You also can find them in game.
Time gives haste and silence as it's 1-10 unique spells. There is a lot of competition for that second level slot and silence is a will negates spell just like Slumber, so silence isn't that great for a witch. So Time, for PFS, largely equals haste and some gold pieces. I would only cast haste and teleport off that spell list inside of PFS (which goes until 12).
The other important question is whether other casters are likely to have those spells. For example, bards, wizards, sorcs, summoners, and alchemists are pretty common in PFS. All of these classes are likely to have haste. Is your also having haste all that great of addition to the party? Just last weekend the casters in the party had more enlarges memorized than melees who wanted to be enlarged.
Personally, I took plaque on my pfs witch because witch hexes and spells tend to be mind effecting, and I prefer to keep myself with several useful options in every kind of fight.
Hexes tend to be good at single target control. Witches have some deficiencies in party-wide buffs, dealing with mindless foes, and controlling groups of enemies. These things are what witches rely on their spells to do, and having a patron that lessens these weaknesses by giving them access to spells the otherwise could not get is what I see as important.
In short, yes, time (i.e., haste) is great, but there are other patrons that are useful.
Unfortunately, your level 2 pick must be a hex, not a feat. That's why some of us are advocating Slumber at level 2, since you're locked into a subset of choices (feats can give you hexes, but hexes cannot give you feats).
Not a big deal, since you can just use your level 3 feat to get Accursed Hex.
I'm not a big fan of wisdom penalties, since Perception and Will saves work from it. But I did advocate the 20 Int, and I suppose the points have to come from somewhere... decreasing your Dex is an option, since your AC is going to be weak anyway and failing Reflex saves is not as bad as failing Fort/Will - but your choice here.
I agree. Strength isn't important at all if you have a handy haversack and/or prehensile hair. At level 3, my 7 str witch grappled the big baddie archer in the last combat as an OA with my hair. I also coup de graced enemies and pulled myself to the roof a couple of time with my hair. Depending on your DM you might even be able to use prehensile hair, like cat whiskers, as an invisible foe finder.
I love my hair and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
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Second, I disagree with your recommendation for why to pick a Patron. Yes getting spells from outside the witch spell list is nice, providing those are spells you actually ever plan to cast.
My recommendation has always been to pick a patron that gives you spells you will want to cast often. Time for instance in PFS gives you access to 5 spells that you will find a way/need to cast every scenario without fail.
Deception on the other hand gives you a bunch of spells you will probably never use but gives you invisibility, is it worth it?Go for what you want but remember look at the whole lifespan of...
It doesn't cost much to get scrolls of spells you will commonly cast to add them to your spell book, especially low level spells. You also can find them in game.
Time gives haste and silence as it's 1-10 unique spells. There is a lot of competition for that second level slot and silence is a will negates spell just like Slumber, so silence isn't that great for a witch. So Time, for PFS, largely equals haste and some gold pieces. I would only cast haste and teleport off that spell list inside of PFS (which goes until 12).
The other important question is whether other casters are likely to have those spells. For example, bards, wizards, sorcs, summoners, and alchemists are pretty common in PFS. All of these classes are likely to have haste. Is your also having haste all that great of addition to the party? Just last weekend the casters in the party had more enlarges memorized than melees who wanted to be enlarged.
Personally, I took plaque on my pfs witch because witch hexes and spells tend to be mind effecting, and I prefer to keep myself with several useful options in every kind of fight.
Hexes tend to be good at single target control. Witches have some deficiencies in party-wide buffs, dealing with mindless foes, and controlling groups of enemies. These things are what witches rely on their spells to do, and having a patron that lessens these...
Haste is awesome I do agree but you have missed a fact about Silence that kicks it into the awesome field as well. It's only a will save to negate if you cast it on an opponent. If you cast it on a rock and get it in the general area they do not get a save against it. This makes it an awesome Witch spell since it shuts down rival casters but does not affect any of your hexes.
Also Threefold Aspect is an awesome spell that is routinely underestimated by those who don't look it over close enough.Teleport is Teleport and if you get the chance to memorize it you will always find a use for it in PFS. It's one of those game changing spells like Fly and can totally negate or bypass many challenges.
These are four spells I will always find a place for in my spell list but actually buying a scroll of them is extremely expensive.
150GP a pop for silence isn't too bad but 375GP for a haste and 1125GP for a teleport quickly gets prohibitive.
With that said Time is a great patron but there are others that can be better and/or fit your theme more successfully so again I say choose what you want just look at your whole career when choosing.
PS: I have no idea why I keep saying cackle affects slumber, I just can't seem to break that habit.
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I think we all just wish Cackle included Slumber.