Stronger materials?

[ElektraDawns]

Hi!! So I'm still learning all the ins and outs of society play, and I'm looking at doing something for one of my two character ideas with the net, but I'm worried about its hardness and hit points. At home this would be something I would ask my DM, but is there any way to make or get items with stronger materials somehow in society play? Thank you!!

[WalterGM]

There sure is. Take a peek at the special materials, in the Equiptment section of the CRB.

As far as getting a net made out of something like mithral or adamantine, probably not. However, you can always purchase a masterwork net, and then upgrade it to magical (+1, +2, etc). You add 10 hp for each +1 enhancement bonus of a magic item, so you can toughen it up that way.

[kinevon]

Walter Sheppard wrote:

There sure is. Take a peek at the special materials, in the Equiptment section of the CRB.

As far as getting a net made out of something like mithral or adamantine, probably not. However, you can always purchase a masterwork net, and then upgrade it to magical (+1, +2, etc). You add 10 hp for each +1 enhancement bonus of a magic item, so you can toughen it up that way.

Remember that each +1 adds 2 to the hardness, as well.

Unfortunately, the odds are that an adamantine weapon will still slice through any possible net like a hot knife through butter. Adamantine weapons ignore any hardness below 20.

Oddly enough, there appears to be a disapearing/reappearing rule (I just saw it yesterday, but can't find it today) about magic weapons and sundering, where you needed an enhancement bonus at least equal to the target's enhancement to be able to affect it.

[Eric Clingenpeel]

kinevon wrote:

Oddly enough, there appears to be a disapearing/reappearing rule (I just saw it yesterday, but can't find it today) about magic weapons and sundering, where you needed an enhancement bonus at least equal to the target's enhancement to be able to affect it.

I believe that the took that rule out when they added the +2 hardness +10 hp's per +1 in the last errata.

[kinevon]

That explains it. It gets very confusing, since we keep using someone's book who has the 2nd edition. I gotta get on top of him to get the errata....

[Sean H]

Another option, though still a bit pricey, is to attach one(or more) Fortifying Stones to your net. 4 of these would give it Hardness 20(enough to avoid the Adamantine Sunder) and increase the DC to break out by 20(DC 45 Strength Check total... what monsters have 60 Strength again?). It would cost you 4,000gp, which isn't terribly expensive, but if your net was destroyed somehow you would lose all 4 fortifying stones.

[ElektraDawns]

I like the ideas with the fortifying stone, I didn't even know that existed! Thank you!!

I looked at the special materials, but could darkleaf be used? There's no cost for weapons though. Thank you!!

[CanisDirus]

Silly thought - would darkwood work for this?

Given that a net is made of rope, and rope *can* be made from bark and plant fibers...

In a home game, as a GM I'd personally allow it, given the cost increase. I can't speak for PFS though.

[ElektraDawns]

Who would I ask about using darkleaf or darkwood?

[CanisDirus]

Mike Brock, perhaps?

[W. Kristoph Nolen]

<nods> Yep. That'd be who to ask. I'm sure he's likely to address it if you put it in the PFS General forums (right here in this forum) specifically.
I would suggest emailing him, but, that's generally the kind of thing that hte forums are for, and I would hold email as a reserve in case he doesn't respond. Insofar as I know, he prefers thigns like that on the forum boards so that anyone else can see the response, or search for it if they happen to have the same question later on.

[CanisDirus]

Mark Moreland also seems to haunt the PFS boards, as another possibility (though I'd imagine both he and Mike are super busy being that this is in the middle of "con season").

(Seeing as I have a Lore Warden who is also geared for net-fighting, I admit that I'm curious about this question as well!)

[WalterGM]

While it'll be nice to get an answer -- as a GM and as a player -- I've never seen an NPC (or had one of my NPCs) waste a turn getting the net off. For the most part, they just deal with the entangled condition until it falls off (fireballing themselves, etc etc), as it's not worth the action it takes to break it.

My advice: keep rocking your net builds, and if you get an answer great, but don't stop the presses until you do.

[Joe Jungers]

Question about the Fortifying Stones.

Does it say anywhere that you can stack the effects of multiple stones on the same item? Usually bonuses of the same type don't stack.

[godsDMit]

Joe Jungers wrote:

Question about the Fortifying Stones.

Does it say anywhere that you can stack the effects of multiple stones on the same item? Usually bonuses of the same type don't stack.

My guess is yes they do stack, because it doesnt specify only one can be used on each item, and these arent the normaly kinds of bonuses. Also, if any exist anymore, untyped bonuses stack, I think, which these may count as, since they dont list themselves as any other kind specifically.

Could be wrong, though. If it does work, it's a very interesting idea. You could flavor it by saying you had replaced one of the regular weight stones with the Fortifying Stone.

[CRobledo]

Seth Gipson wrote:

Also, if any exist anymore, untyped bonuses stack, I think, which these may count as, since they dont list themselves as any other kind specifically.

Oh, they still exist indeed. Arcane Strike bonus is untyped. Haste attack bonus is untyped. I'm sure there are others.

[BigNorseWolf]

Untyped bonuses stack unless they come from essentially the same source.

[Jiggy]

More precisely, the rule is that bonuses of the same type don't stack.

[ElektraDawns]

Walter Sheppard wrote:

While it'll be nice to get an answer -- as a GM and as a player -- I've never seen an NPC (or had one of my NPCs) waste a turn getting the net off. For the most part, they just deal with the entangled condition until it falls off (fireballing themselves, etc etc), as it's not worth the action it takes to break it.

My advice: keep rocking your net builds, and if you get an answer great, but don't stop the presses until you do.

They can cut through it like an attack too right? Since it only has 5 hit points?

[Sean H]

ElektraDawns wrote:

Walter Sheppard wrote:

While it'll be nice to get an answer -- as a GM and as a player -- I've never seen an NPC (or had one of my NPCs) waste a turn getting the net off. For the most part, they just deal with the entangled condition until it falls off (fireballing themselves, etc etc), as it's not worth the action it takes to break it.

My advice: keep rocking your net builds, and if you get an answer great, but don't stop the presses until you do.

They can cut through it like an attack too right? Since it only has 5 hit points?

Either that, or Sunder it.

For attaching multiple Fortifying Stones, this line seems to clear up any doubt as to stacking:

Quote:

Any effect that breaks or destroys the protected object also destroys any attached fortifying stones.

[ElektraDawns]

Sean H wrote:

ElektraDawns wrote:

Walter Sheppard wrote:

While it'll be nice to get an answer -- as a GM and as a player -- I've never seen an NPC (or had one of my NPCs) waste a turn getting the net off. For the most part, they just deal with the entangled condition until it falls off (fireballing themselves, etc etc), as it's not worth the action it takes to break it.

My advice: keep rocking your net builds, and if you get an answer great, but don't stop the presses until you do.

They can cut through it like an attack too right? Since it only has 5 hit points?

Either that, or Sunder it.

For attaching multiple Fortifying Stones, this line seems to clear up any doubt as to stacking:

Quote:

Any effect that breaks or destroys the protected object also destroys any attached fortifying stones.

Ok I think I see. So if you hit them with it they can attack it with sunder to try and destroy it, but if no one is holding the net's trailing rope that attack is against a super low AC. I think I have it now. <3

So the only question left is whether or not nets can be made from darkleaf or darkwood in pathfinder society play!

[Emerilis]

In short both of these materials are a no go, there are few if any materials that replace rope normally. For society this is no go, however, for non-society play take a look at Sharkskin (a very unique material to say the least), whale sinew, black seaweed, possibly even whip wood. None of these items will affect its hardness greatly if at all, but they do allow for bonuses or alternatives to the rope/leather construction of netting. To my knowledge there is no limit to how many fortifying stones one can put on an object, and they do stack. But there are two drawbacks, the stone cannot be removed once used and it can be destroyed. A way that I've seen a GM limit the number of stones was to cap the number based on weight (i.e., 3 per pound of weight). The best thing I would say to do is get 4 fortifying stones at the same time, and then begin adding magical properties to your net as that will improve your item quickly and reduce the likelihood of someone destroying it before your able to reinforce it.