Does seeking negate grapple miss chance

[tumbler]

Does the seeking magic weapon quality negate the chance of missing your target in a grapple? If not, is there any way to do this?

[Michael Sayre]

tumbler wrote:

Does the seeking magic weapon quality negate the chance of missing your target in a grapple? If not, is there any way to do this?

"Seeking: Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability. The weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby."

Sure looks like it does.

[tumbler]

The chance to hit someone in a grapple isn't specifically called out as a miss chance, which it is in the concealment rules. That's why I was doubtful. I thought it would, but I'm looking to support the argument that it works.

[Grizzly the Archer]

Seeking and grapple? Seeking is for ranged weapons only. How are you combining this to negate grapple, which is a CMB vs CMD maneuver?

[Michael Sayre]

You know, I was actually digging around in Grapple to try and find the exact wording, and it doesn't look like there is any particular extra miss chance for firing into a grapple, just the normal rules for the -4 for firing into melee, which can be negated with Precise Shot.

[Morgen]

Correct, there is no miss chance for shooting at someone involved in a grapple.

[Grizzly the Archer]

The miss chance for grapple, of between the enemy and an ally has been removed from PF.

[tumbler]

I'm not the grappler. There is a grapple focused barbarian in the party who I am trying to miss.

I had looked at the rules and could not find the rules for firing into a grapple, but I didn't realize they were removed in Pathfinder. Thanks for the help.

[Grizzly the Archer]

.... I know your not the grappler, hence why your asking about shooting into a melee grappled ally and enemy.

But yes, they removed that rule. So precise shot is all you need. Imp. Precise shot would be for also the grappling bunch, because our ally might provide soft cover.

[stemfish]

copied from d20pfsrd

Seeking
The weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.

Grappling creatures do not share the same square, thus the -4 penalty for shooting into melee will still apply, but nothing special beyond that. I personally believe that seeking does negate the -4, as it is effectively your opponent using your ally as a form of concealment, and the -4 comes from you trying to avoid your ally. So while the -4 is closer to cover (partial cover gives you bonus AC while concealment is miss chance) I feel that seeking helps out and negates this.

To sum it up, I believe that seeking negates the -4 penalty, just as if you had precise shot.

[wraithstrike]

The -4 penalty has nothing to do with concealment, and all seeking does is bypass miss chances.

[Grizzly the Archer]

-4 isn't a miss chance , concealments 20% miss chance, IS A MISS CHANCE.

Precise shot is specifically for the -4 into melee. says so in the feat.

Imp. Precise shot is for getting rid of of all types of cover and concealment (such as soft cover and concealment respectively) EXCEPT for total cover and total concealment.

Seeking weapon enchantment is for total concealment, it overlaps with Imp. precise shot, but you need it anyway,

[Slamy Mcbiteo]

Grizzly the Archer wrote:

-4 isn't a miss chance , concealments 20% miss chance, IS A MISS CHANCE.

Precise shot is specifically for the -4 into melee. says so in the feat.

Imp. Precise shot is for getting rid of of all types of cover and concealment (such as soft cover and concealment respectively) EXCEPT for total cover and total concealment.

Seeking weapon enchantment is for total concealment, it overlaps with Imp. precise shot, but you need it anyway,

The -4 is a penalty not a miss chance....you are being extra careful not to hit your friend

Here is precise shot

Precise Shot (Combat)
You are adept at f iring ranged attacks into melee.
Prerequisite: Point-Blank Shot.
Benef it: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an
opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard
–4 penalty on your attack roll

[StreamOfTheSky]

PF removed the miss chance for shooting into a grapple entirely.

The wording's been removed from the grapple rules, and the Improved Precise Shot feat (the means to overcome it in 3E) had that bit of text completely removed.

PF made grappling less "serious" in general. Now it's just like holding someone's arm and staying in your own spaces, attacking whoever you like. Not the greco-roman same space completely occupied with your foe version that 3E had.