So I have a rather huge urban campaign starting in 2 weeks, & have managed to gain 8 players(guess people really love the concept for my game? yay?)
I have got the system for Creating encounters down, but am wondering if only haveing the +1 over 6 players will be enough?
We used heroic rolling to generate stats. The lowest modifier total we have is a +8 total across his stats & most others are in the region of 9-12 bonuses.
I was thinking maybe add another +1 to the APL to account for the 2 extra players over 6? But am unsure if that would break the system or not
As a general thing i wouldnt recomend Running a APL 8 game with so many players your first time Dming. I personally wouldnt want to Dm 8 players with experience, but thats a seperate issue :)
8 players breaks the system just fine as it is. How often are you running this? If you divide it into two groups of 4 it will be much more manageable, especially if you're using published adventures.
Well let me cover a few basics I didnt in my initial post.
First, I have run alot of other RPGs, just not pathfinder yet, though I am a long time player. Out of my group I think only 3 of the 8 are brand new to pathfinder, & 2 of them played 3.5
The big reason I allowed 8 players is because alot of them dont have schedules that always allow them to make games, but at least for the first few sessions that wont be an issue from what I can see. I am merely preparing for when the stars & moons align(as a friend like to put it)
I'm used to combats taking a while with large groups, my games are normally 6-8 players in other systems(world of darkness, rifts, etc)
I'm mostly just trying to make sure I dont throw too much at them too soon in terms of system, since the CR system seems to handle things alot better(and takes some of the stress off me) then other games handle encounters.
Also this campaign is custom built, not pre-gen. Its a sandbox guilds game set in calimport forgotten realms, which is perfect for pulling PCs in & out as needed due to Real life.
Going to be running it every other sunday, medium progression, most likely with role play & "you got here on time yay!!" extra xp
First things first,
A standard encounter should be CR9
Add 2 for the size of the party = CR 11
Add at least 2 for the heroic stats = CR 13Therefore I make it that a standard encounter should be about CR 13.
keep in mind that it would be better off to keep that as a lot of lower level things, else the party is unlikely to have the resources or defences to not die fast, but it should make for exciting combats, even if they take a while to sort out.
Perhaps grab someone in the party to track initiative, and make sure to stick to the idea that people need to get their actions ready. Try to keep unrelated chat to a minimum and keep the flow going all the time.
I have played in 8 person parties before, and found that sometimes the game can go frustratingly slowly. It might be an idea to split them into two smaller groups and then have them join together on an occasional basis, otherwise the game is likely to suffer.
I thought the way APL worked you take the number of levels(in this case 8 players at level 1), add the levels together & divide it by the number of players. Which would make the APL for these guys 2 since they are over 6 players. Or did i miss something?
One thing I would also like to throw out there is that the group I am running this for is more role play focused then combat encounters, as am I, so most likely combats will only happen if they need to & will supplement the story rather then be the focus.
Ah my apologies, I thought they were meant to be at level 8
In that case with APL at about 2 then the average encounter should be about CR5 to 7 I would think. Again, little monsters but a lot of them is probably the way to go. A single willowisp for example nearly killed my party cleric off, despite being a level appropriate encounter for the party. (High AC and High damage for the wisp is a killer)
I had planned for their first encounter to make it a member of the wererats guild with his pack of dire rats raiding a storehouse in the lower part of the city. So 1 CR2 wererat & 3-6 dire rats. The DR wouldnt be hard for them to overcome with the strength bonuses of several of the players(two of the buggers have strength 20)
Whats your thought on that encounter makeup?
That would sound to be spot on the money to be honest, a pretty cool encounter. Just be careful to infect as much of the party as you can with the rat lycanthrope disease, and then later on make sure to have a werecat of some kind.....
*evil gm grin*
Oh the plan is if any of them get infected, I will roll behind the GM screen & they will be left to decide if "finding a cure" is necessary. I've come up with several directions this plot can go, involving either trying to locate the wererats guild & dealing with them(they are going to be one of the starting antagonists in the campaign) or seeking a cure from one of the apothecary guilds.
Needless to say its gonna be awesome. Oh how I would love to see the female tiefling rogue turn into a wererat <3
Just to cover a potential trap that I've seen a few new GMs fall into: At first glance, high ability scores look like they should lend themselves to higher CR encounters - the party have more spells, hit more often, are harder to hit, have higher skill bonuses.
However, there are two areas where it falls down with combat encounters, and those are damage and hit points. When you go more than a few CR above the actual APL of the party, they will find themselves facing creatures capable of dishing out a lot of damage (especially at low levels), with a lot of hp. Those increased attack, damage and AC points certainly help, but it's not always going to be enough, if you're not careful.
The fact that you've already said that this is a roleplay-focused group will probably mean that you don't have to worry, but it's something to bear in mind.
Just to cover a potential trap that I've seen a few new GMs fall into: At first glance, high ability scores look like they should lend themselves to higher CR encounters - the party have more spells, hit more often, are harder to hit, have higher skill bonuses.
However, there are two areas where it falls down with combat encounters, and those are damage and hit points. When you go more than a few CR above the actual APL of the party, they will find themselves facing creatures capable of dishing out a lot of damage (especially at low levels), with a lot of hp. Those increased attack, damage and AC points certainly help, but it's not always going to be enough, if you're not careful.
The fact that you've already said that this is a roleplay-focused group will probably mean that you don't have to worry, but it's something to bear in mind.
I've given that some thought while reading this thread. One thing I am planning on doing is using the first few encounters to gently ease into it all. They have to prove themselves useful to the guild with some "go do these favors for us" quests, so I dont mind making the first 2 or 3 sessions mildly easy to Gage where the party stands.
Though frankly between the neutral evil ifrit fire sorcerer & the swirling dance of swords bard I am a bit scared XD.
with 8 players the APL/CR thing goes out the window
give all baddies max hp
Im running KM to 7 players, and give all baddies max hp and stuff is a balanced challenge (they are 13th now)
if you up the baddies power you are going to have party members die more often.......
on there go a 5th level cleric or sorceror may wipe the 1st level party in one fireball or negative channel, while the 4th level likely will not
will be interested to see how it goes
with 8 players the APL/CR thing goes out the window
give all baddies max hp
Im running KM to 7 players, and give all baddies max hp and stuff is a balanced challenge (they are 13th now)if you up the baddies power you are going to have party members die more often.......
on there go a 5th level cleric or sorceror may wipe the 1st level party in one fireball or negative channel, while the 4th level likely will not
will be interested to see how it goes
I do like that idea of maxing the HP on the antagonists & keeping the CR system intact as is.
Also except for a big bad I have planned for around every 5 levels, most "bosses" will be mini ones or only mildly more powerful then the rest. Being a guilds game this will be more about fighting the rank & file soldiers of other guilds early on.
As for rerolls, that wont happen unless someone decides they want to reroll. But they could get into some serious debt if the guild keeps having to res them. One time wont be so bad, but say a PC dies 3 times, then they had better have some massive importance to the guild by that time to justify the res.
So I have a rather huge urban campaign starting in 2 weeks, & have managed to gain 8 players(guess people really love the concept for my game? yay?)Good luck! You are going to need it.
How so? I regularly field 6-8 players in games. Its all about expectations of what is going on & the people playing. This is a good group of players, & they are good about having their actions ready in my games. Just because I havnt ran pathfinder before doesnt mean I am not an experienced GM. And if I miss a few rules, I will learn from it & the get the system down over time.
I have got the system for Creating encounters down, but am wondering if only haveing the +1 over 6 players will be enough?PCs are stronger than their parts. +1 is not enough.
Thats why I am going to run a few simple encounters at first, get a feel for what the party is capable of & do the max HP for all antagonists to make it a bit tougher without breaking the system too hard.
If that doesnt work, I will gradually increase the CR until I find the sweet spot. No biggie really given I want the encounters to supplement the role play, not the other way around.
We used heroic rolling to generate stats. The lowest modifier total we have is a +8 total across his stats & most others are in the region of 9-12 bonuses.This was not a good idea. If possible, have them all point buy. I'm being perfectly serious. You've got enough problems with a double-sized party without this issue.
I dont like point buy. None of my players like point buy.
I think your reaction to my posts is a bit exaggerated.
The party consists of a rogue, a sorcerer, a wizard, a ranger, a fighter, a monk, a cleric & a bard. Thats only two dedicated combat classes, 2 dedicated magic classes & 4 hybrid magic/combat classes(considering the variants they took).
I also mentioned not all the players will always be able to show up to every game. I know my monk is gonna miss the 1st & 3rd session due to work & prior engagements.