on figuring out your Basic attack bonus it says use your class base attack bonus, your modifier for strength or dexterity, and your size modifier. but when looking at setting your base AC it looks like your using your size modifier 2 times am I missing something?
for BAB(Base attack bonus) it is based off of your player's class levels. Monsters gain BAB from Hit Dice as well, which will be listed in the back of the beastiary.
Other modifiers to hit, such as strength or dexterity modifiers, size, magical bonuses, etc. . . are not counted as your base attack bonus.
For AC size should only affect it once, with a bonus if your smaller than medium, or a penalty if your larger than medium
I was referring to the following which is out of the rulebook 5th printing.
Attack Bonus
Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is the following:
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier
With a ranged weapon, your attack bonus is the following:
Base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier
+ size modifier + range penalty
Armor Class
Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for
opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. It’s the
attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit
you. Your AC is equal to the following:
10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier +
other modifiers
Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you’re
wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole
Dexterity bonus to your AC (see Table 6–6).
Sometimes you can’t use your Dexterity bonus (if you
have one). If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your
Dexterity bonus to AC. If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus,
your AC does not change.
Other Modifiers: Many other factors modify your AC.
Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to
your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.
Def lection Bonus: Magical def lection effects ward off
attacks and improve your AC.
Natural Armor: If your race has a tough hide, scales, or
thick skin you receive a bonus to your AC.
Dodge Bonuses: Dodge bonuses represent actively
avoiding blows. Any situation that denies you your
Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing
armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it
limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of
bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.
Size Modifier: You receive a bonus or penalty to your AC
based on your size. See Table 8–1.
Which does make it look like it is used twice. I'm sorry that I am not seeing it as clear as I should, this part of combat has me confounded as it looks like the size mods are used 2 times.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's see if I can help by explaining why the size modifier exists for Attack Bonus and AC.
Assumptions: Creatures of the same size should be able to hit each other equally easily (all else being equal). Creatures that are attacking something smaller than them should have a harder time hitting their target, all else being equal. Creatures that are attacking something larger than them should have an easier time hitting their target, all else being equal. Two small creatures hitting each other should have the same chance of hitting each other as two giant creatures hitting each other.
So, let's make "all else equal": BAB of +0, no ability score modifiers, no AC modifiers, no other modifiers at all. The only thing affecting Attack Bonus and AC is the size modifier.
Case file 1) Human vs Elf. +0 to hit vs AC 10. Each needs to roll a 10 or more to hit the other.
Case file 2) Halfling vs Goblin. +1 to hit vs AC 11. Each needs to roll 10 or more to hit the other.
Case file 3) Human vs Goblin. Human has +0 to hit vs AC 11, and needs to roll 11 or more to hit. Goblin has +1 to hit vs AC 10, and needs to roll 9 or more to hit.
Case file 4) Cat vs colossal dragon. Cat has +2 to hit, vs AC 2, and needs to roll a 2 or more to hit (since a 1misses). Dragon has -8 to hit against AC 12, and needs to roll 20 to hit.
As we can see, in all cases, the smaller creature has an easier time hitting the bigger one, and the bigger one has a harder time attacking the smaller one.
Conclusion: If they're bigger than you, they're easier to hit, and easier to avoid. And vice versa.
Conclusion: If they're bigger than you, they're easier to hit, and easier to avoid. And vice versa.
However, in PF, being bigger equals 'having more HD', which leads to 'better Base Attack'.
Plus, being bigger invariably translates into 'being stronger', and since Strength directly affects your melee attacks, you'll hit better.Long story short: If they're bigger, they ought to have a harder time hitting you. Which they don't, actually.
Which is why I only looked at the effect of the size modifier. Yes, it doesn't have much of an effect when other factors are included, but the simple reason for its existence is as I showed above.
Very very well put Chemlak. I understood the rules already, but that really made it clear - and should help anyone in doubt. Thank you :)