I know monks can use feral combat training to swap unarmed strikes for thier natural attacks but what about everyone else ?
Can anyone with the feral combat training feat sub in natural attacks for their iterative unarmed attack routine ?
say a level 11 Ranger with unarmed attacks routine of +9/+9/+4/+4/-1/-1 could sub in thier natural 1d4 claw attacks to make those attacks ?
or is subbing in natural attacks for unarmed a flurry only thing ?
RAW it allows the use of the specified NA to be used as a monk weapon in a FoB as per the monk only special.
It doesn't allow for the subbing of an unarmed strike attack with an natural attack, an unarmed strike attack isn't an attack with a feat using IUS as a prereq.
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Though honestly I'm not sure it matters in your example, a NA can be used for any "normal" BAB attack including a main/offhand for TWF (2 claws required) though I don't think it would be available for secondary attacks as the limb is being used. Given your attack routine it looks like a BAB +11 with GTWF, you just choose to use unarmed strikes. You could use any 2 weapons, including 2 claws for that routine. An "unarmed strike routine" would be one that could only be done with unarmed strikes, that isn't the same as what your example seems to be. Monks and maybe that unarmed fighter archtype are the only two places I would imagine seeing an "unarmed strike routine."
Natural Attacks do not use the two weapon fighting rules at all.
What exactly are you talking about Skylancer4?
Incorrect.
You have a choice to use a natural attack routine, you aren't required to. If you have a claw attack you could still use the normal BAB routine with your claw. If you have two claws you could use TWF progression. You just wouldn't be able to make secondary natural attacks on the full attack action as both claws were being used for TWFing.
If you had two claws and a bite, you could TWF the claws using the feats and BAB, then at the end pop the bite on as a secondary natural attack as that "limb" wasn't used during the BAB full attack action. At lower levels it is kinda dumb to do so (higher miss chance with TWF vs NA routine), at higher levels the pure number of attacks possible make it more useful (6 attacks vs 2, assuming two claws)
Natural weapons don't use BAB for attacks. You can not bite 3 times just because you have a +11 BAB. You also can not attack using +11/+6/+1 because you have 2 claws and 1 bite.
I am sure you can't find one example in the bestiary or any published product that does this. You also can't find rules that allow it.
Natural weapons don't use BAB for attacks. You can not bite 3 times just because you have a +11 BAB. You also can not attack using +11/+6/+1 because you have 2 claws and 1 bite.
I am sure you can't find one example in the bestiary or any published product that does this. You also can't find rules that allow it.
I never said you could. Read my posts again. I said that if they have 2 claw attacks (as just about any creature with claws does) they could make TWF attacks with the listed attack routine without any need for FCT using just the core rules.
I understand the confusion now, I'm working with claw blades and never typed it out. Too many threads about those lately and I've got them "on the brain" apparently... It took the post about 3 bites in a row to get me wondering what you were all talking about.
I never said you could. Read my posts again. I said that if they have 2 claw attacks (as just about any creature with claws does) they could make TWF attacks with the listed attack routine without any need for FCT using just the core rules.Natural weapons don't use BAB for attacks. You can not bite 3 times just because you have a +11 BAB. You also can not attack using +11/+6/+1 because you have 2 claws and 1 bite.
I am sure you can't find one example in the bestiary or any published product that does this. You also can't find rules that allow it.
TWF is based off of BAB not how many attacks you can make. Since natural attacks don't use BAB to determine how many attacks you can make you are incorrect. That was basically what I was saying.
In short TWF is based off of iterative attacks, which is based off of BAB.
Natural attacks is determined solely by the number of natural weapons a creature has.
I never said you could. Read my posts again. I said that if they have 2 claw attacks (as just about any creature with claws does) they could make TWF attacks with the listed attack routine without any need for FCT using just the core rules.Natural weapons don't use BAB for attacks. You can not bite 3 times just because you have a +11 BAB. You also can not attack using +11/+6/+1 because you have 2 claws and 1 bite.
I am sure you can't find one example in the bestiary or any published product that does this. You also can't find rules that allow it.
TWF is based off of BAB not how many attacks you can make. Since natural attacks don't use BAB to determine how many attacks you can make you are incorrect. That was basically what I was saying.
In short TWF is based off of iterative attacks, which is based off of BAB.
Natural attacks is determined solely by the number of natural weapons a creature has.
See above.
Ok. I see the blade claw reference now. I don't know what they are, but I will assume that it works.
ok so something something flurry only ?