Can Marionette Possession be used to create a lich?


Rules Questions


Spell

What I want to do is have a newly created lich turn her teenage daughter into a lich in order to fulfill a character concept I have in mind (that of a young individual, ignorant of much about the world, who becomes a lich with no understanding of what this transformation means). My idea is to have the mother use this spell to possess the daughter, and then cast the necessary spells and create the phylactery using the daughter's body and the mother's knowledge and power.

Does this fulfill the requirements to become a lich? In particular, if the mother makes the phylactery with the daughter's body, does it count as the daughter making it? Can this method circumvent the caster level requirement to become a lich?


Re read the lich entry, it specifically calls out the casters soul. The caster is not the daughter and so wouldn't work RAW.

Second the ritual for the initial lich wouldn't work for the daughters body, you would need to research a new ritual.

Third, the spell probably won't last long enough to perform the ritual even if it did work.

Rule 0:

Now, with all that being said, if you are dead set on doing it... As a GM you can always Rule 0 it. There are provisions for crafting magical items with multiple people (one is crafting another is casting the required spells etc). As such mother and daughter could have been working on the phylactery together (give daughter a couple of aristocrat levels and craft jewelery or something). Daughter pricked finger while crafting, blood got mixed, one thing leads to another, ritual completes and poof both get the lich template.

Anything more down this line deserves its own thread in the advice forum (as RAW/RAI is pretty clear).


You could have the mother make the daughter a magical item that mimics lichdom - like a once-per-say, 24h Magic Jar ring. Combine it with a Binding - Minimus Containment and a willing host body, and Bob's your uncle. Sort of.

Or if the daughter is a caster too, they could work together on the process with mother providing the real "oomph" while the daughter gets the benefits. Though I'm not sure if/how that works per RAW.


What Skylancer said, though why make the daughter a lich ?

She would have enough ability to turn her into other kinds of undead, probably complementing her own abilities better.

A vampire springs to mind, since it grants her many supernatural powers, otherwise a juju zombie would be one of the better options. I do think making lichdom so easily available would cheapen the transformation somewhat.

Vampire, Juju zombie, ghost, bodak, wight or (Osirion) mummy.

A vampire, juju zombie, ghost or osirion mummy are defined by class levels. I'd still add class levels to a bodak, wight or common mummy to better get a representation fo what you wish for.


Without rule zero I don't think it works. Also the daughter neds tobe a lvl 11 spell caster at least.


Remco Sommeling wrote:
What Skylancer said, though why make the daughter a lich ?

A very, very screwed up sense of love (being irredeemably evil doesn't mean you can't love your child). She wants to share her new condition with her only family, so that they can be together forever.

Quote:

She would have enough ability to turn her into other kinds of undead, probably complementing her own abilities better.

A vampire springs to mind, since it grants her many supernatural powers, otherwise a juju zombie would be one of the better options. I do think making lichdom so easily available would cheapen the transformation somewhat.

Vampire, Juju zombie, ghost, bodak, wight or (Osirion) mummy.

A vampire, juju zombie, ghost or osirion mummy are defined by class levels. I'd still add class levels to a bodak, wight or common mummy to better get a representation fo what you wish for.

If I were to go with one of these options, I'd make the mother the same creature.

What I want is an undead that maintains both intelligence and self awareness, and that meshes with the daughter's class (bard, with multiclassing being a maybe/maybe not at the moment).

Secondly, the mother has to do the legwork on the transformation, not the daughter. At the time of the transformation, the daughter doesn't understand what she's getting into, and is only doing it out of an effort to please her mother. She's a very confused and traumatized true neutral teenager being pressured into this by a severely messed-up parent, not an evil necromancer in her own right.


Perhaps some sort of dominate to make the daughter go through the motions to become a lich.

Alternately the mother could create an item which makes the daughter a lich and acts as the phalactry. I saw something similar, but it was a throne. I believe it was in the 3.5 book about the desert. I forget the name. Perhaps the item only works in the family line of the original creator. That being the case the mother would want a grand daughter/son before removing her daughters **Ahem** biological bits.


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Perhaps some sort of dominate to make the daughter go through the motions to become a lich.

Alternately the mother could create an item which makes the daughter a lich and acts as the phalactry. I saw something similar, but it was a throne. I believe it was in the 3.5 book about the desert. I forget the name. Perhaps the item only works in the family line of the original creator. That being the case the mother would want a grand daughter/son before removing her daughters **Ahem** biological bits.

Probably thinking about Sandstorm, they had a "dry lich" and PrC to slowly become one.

@OP, might want to post in the advice/suggestions forum for further help on pursuing this particular endeavor. Making it work is getting outside RAW and into houserules. Just toss a link here so anyone interested can follow there as well ;)

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