Does a Druid need to be the listed Elemental Body size to get bennies??


Rules Questions


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Let's say my Druid can wild shape using Elemental Body III. With Air elemental as the example,he's huge (15'), enjoys a 120 fly speed, and gets DR/5; all benefits that Elemental Body I and II don't give. Now supposing my Druid likes to be a small sized elemental or even has to be to fit in a small space- does that I mean I revert to getting only the advantages of that Elemental Body form?

I hope the question is clear enough. Feel free to ask for clarification.


You get exactly what the spell says you get. It never says you get the to be huge or small. The idea is not to allow you to mix the best of both worlds.


FAQ'ed it, it never was that clear to me.


It does seem like it works differently from Beast Shape that way, though I'm not sure if it is supposed to.


It's still clear as mud to me. Wraithstrike has a point about RAW in the literal sense, but it's counter-intuitive, especially with an Air Elemental of all things, that I'd be unable to fit in a typical corridor or small/ medium room without having to drop Elemental Body III.

Scarab Sages

DOT!


Weird.

It looks like if you, say, cast EBIV, you can assume any size from Small to Huge, and you'll be immune to bleed, crits, and sneak attacks. You'll also gain DR 5/–.

It also notes, "The abilities you gain depend upon the type of elemental into which you change."

Which is vague. It could be read that, okay, now I look below that text and use the stat modifiers listed in EBIV, regardless of size. After all, there really is nothing saying that size affects which stat line you use.

I think that might be wrong, though, since some of the stat modifiers are explicitly size modifiers, so it's probably intended that you match size to spell ... if you assume a Medium form with EBIV, you take the EBII stats (though you still definitely get immunities and DR).

That's a sketchy assumption, though, since the size modifiers are weird. +6 size modifier to Dex for being Huge? Eh? That's pretty non-standard. Might make more sense as racial modifiers.

I'd be interested to hear something official too! I'm also playing a druid, and I hadn't noticed how poorly phrased this bit is.


Michael Loy wrote:

Weird.

It looks like if you, say, cast EBIV, you can assume any size from Small to Huge, and you'll be immune to bleed, crits, and sneak attacks. You'll also gain DR 5/–.

It also notes, "The abilities you gain depend upon the type of elemental into which you change."

Which is vague. It could be read that, okay, now I look below that text and use the stat modifiers listed in EBIV, regardless of size. After all, there really is nothing saying that size affects which stat line you use.

I think that might be wrong, though, since some of the stat modifiers are explicitly size modifiers, so it's probably intended that you match size to spell ... if you assume a Medium form with EBIV, you take the EBII stats (though you still definitely get immunities and DR).

That's a sketchy assumption, though, since the size modifiers are weird. +6 size modifier to Dex for being Huge? Eh? That's pretty non-standard. Might make more sense as racial modifiers.

I'd be interested to hear something official too! I'm also playing a druid, and I hadn't noticed how poorly phrased this bit is.

Size modifiers are just poorly named, they are modifiers with regard to shapechanging magics, usually polymorph but also spells like enlarge or reduce person.


Michael Loy wrote:
"The abilities you gain depend upon the type of elemental into which you change."

In the interests of clarity, 'type' refers (at least) of course to say a Water Elemental as opposed to an Earth elemental. So now we're trying to figure out the importance of size, say small as opposed to huge.


The general polymorph rules say that you get the less of what the spell or the form gives you. So you need a spell AND a form with the bigger ability to get it, so if you need to be a smaller elemental but need the bigger ones ability you're out of luck.


EB is not dependent upon the size of the form for the bonuses. Read it side by side with Beast Shape and it will be very clear.

You cast EB IV, you get the listed benefits for Earth/Air/Water/Fire elemental, regardless of the size you choose. The "type" is just that - which flavor of elemental.

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