[FAQ] [APG] Summoners and Item Creation

[Finn The Human]

Please mark this thread for review by clicking the FAQ button in the upper right corner. The short-form question for the FAQ is this: Does the Summoner class's early spell access lower the price for magic items such as potions of haste & boots of speed?

The rules for item creation in the Core Rulebook state that the price for things such as potions and wands depends on spell level multiplied by item's caster level. The item CL must be at least the minimum level required by the class that casts the spell in question.

Now, summoners get a number of spells at lower level than wizards etc. By lower level, I mean, in most cases, both lower spell level AND lower minimum caster level. For example, the following spells were formerly at a minimum spell level of "wizard 3", and wizards first get such spells at CL 5th:

Summoner's Level 2 Spells (CL 4th):

haste, phantom steed, slow, wind wall

Here's the rest of the affected spells, with thanks to Ashiel for gathering this info:

Summoner's Level 3 Spells (CL 7th):

black tentacles, charm monster, dimension door, dimensional anchor, fire shield, minor creation, stoneskin, summon monster IV, wall of fire, wall of ice

Summoner's Level 4 Spells (CL 10th):

baleful polymorph, contact other plane, insect plague, mage's faithful hound, magic jar, major creation, overland flight, lesser planar binding, summon monster V, teleport, wall of stone

Summoner's Level 5 Spells (CL 13th):

banishment, creeping doom, greater dispel magic, ethereal jaunt, planar binding, simulacrum, spell turning, summon monster VII, greater teleport, wall of iron

Summoner's Level 6 Spells (CL 16th):

binding, dimensional lock, discern location, dominate monster, incendiary cloud, maze, greater planar binding, protection from spells, summon monster VIII, sympathy, teleportation circle

Can someone please confirm how this affects (A) consumable magic items and (B) wondrous items? If I'm reading the rules correctly, a number of wondrous items like boots of speed are now incorrectly priced in the Core Rulebook.

Special thanks to Ashiel, whose wonderful Guide to Adventure brought this to my attention, and who did all the work in compiling the above lists of affected spells.

[Cheapy]

SKR mentioned that items are priced based on what they are worth, not what some crazy new class is able to make them at. I'll find the quote.

[Cheapy]

Ah yes, here we go.

[james maissen]

Cheapy wrote:

SKR mentioned that items are priced based on what they are worth, not what some crazy new class is able to make them at. I'll find the quote.

People forget that there is a difference between wands/scrolls/potions/staves and other magic items. The former have a formula for their price based on the spells contained therein; the later do not. The later have *guidelines* as to pricing, but by no means is that a formula to blindly apply.

-James

[Finn The Human]

So, "yes" on consumables, "no" on wondrous items?

[Seraphimpunk]

SKR mentions Energy resistance costing what it does. Is he talking about item creation w/ lower level spells? because that could be out of context.

a PC Summoner with the craft feats can craft wands/scrolls/potions cheaper based on the formula for creating those magic items. By the logic you're claiming SKR is using, items being worth what they're worth, He can make a scroll of haste for 100gp (CL 4th min for summoner, 2nd level spell), and sell it for half of 187.5gp (1/2 of 375gp for a typical 3rd level spell scroll), instead of half of 200gp. Granted most PCs don't have time to sit down and turn a mega profitable business.

Before summoners, if a spell appeared on a cleric/wizard list at another level, the crafting cost is assumed to be based on that price. Rangers and Paladins get some spells at lower levels, that doesn't disrupt the magical item trade on Scrolls of Lesser Restoration. It just means if they bother taking scribe scroll they can make it a little cheaper. When they buy it at the market, they still pay 150gp for a 2nd level scroll of lesser restoration, even though its a 1st level spell on their lists.

the general populace and magic items found in markets, cost what they cost, based on a cleric or a wizard making them because 90% of the time, thats who's making them.

In a home game if a summoner IS the ONLY item crafter in an area, it might /stress MIGHT, devalue certain magic items. Why would someone at the market buy a scroll of haste from an adventurer for 187.5 gp? when he can buy it for 100gp from the summoner. But thats really trying to force real world economics/underselling on the game world. =P

edit: yes on consumables, no on magic items like boots of haste. those aren't strictly formula based.

[Cheapy]

Consumables use different rules than other items. I figured it'd be obvious that the statements would be applicable to non-consumables only.