Leadership cohort stat generation


Rules Questions

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Does the PC's cohort use the same method of stat generation as the PC?


Sounds like a heroic NPC to me. 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8 is the appropriate stat array.

Creating NPC's

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I would think it uses the rules for creating a NPC as it states that the cohort is usually a NPC with class levels.

But the best best would be to ask your GM or if you are the GM to make that decision.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I guess I'm wondering if there is a standard. It seems like there should be, but I can't tell from the RAW.


SmiloDan wrote:
I guess I'm wondering if there is a standard. It seems like there should be, but I can't tell from the RAW.

I believe this feat was intentionally left as vague as possible to allow for proper GM oversight. I think the heroic npc array is appropriate but you'll want to talk to your GM first.


I make the NPC for the player using the basic array.

There is a zillion ways for GMs to interpret it. No set standard.


DM discretion, entirely.

(It's fairly obvious you can't have a single rule for cohorts, because we don't have a single rule for PCs. If PCs are rolled up 3d6 six times or built with a ten-point buy, slapping the Heroic NPC/Elite Array on cohorts overpowers them relative to the PCs.)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think its vagueness is a liability. It seems to lead to a lot of conflict between the GM and the player, and it also sounds like each group interprets the feat very differently.

Some allow the PC to design the cohort, some have the GM make a cohort with some player influence, sometimes the player has to choose from some pre-made by the GM, sometimes the GM tells the player what they get, etc. etc. And sometimes the GM changes the feat every time it's used--sometimes even in the same campaign.

I've only played with Leadership once, and the PC was an aristocrat/bard and his cohort was a gnome cleric/rogue in a campaign where the other PCs were a scout and a ranger/wizard/truenamer, and eventually a paladin, so it wasn't overpowered. I played the scout. This was 3.5.

I think Pathfinder should errata it. Throw in some standardization. Build the NPC using the same rules as the PCs, and let the player make the character, since it's the player's feat and the player is the one that will be controlling that character. Obviously, the cohort shouldn't overshadow the other PCs. After all, PCs already have druid and ranger animal companions, paladin and cavalier mounts, summoner eidolons, and sorcerer, witch, and wizard familiars (and Improved Familiars).


Benefits: This feat enables you to attract a loyal cohort and a number of devoted subordinates who assist you. A cohort is generally an NPC with class levels, while followers are typically lower level NPCs. See Table: Leadership for what level of cohort and how many followers you can recruit.

Hard to attract a character before they are statted up. Conversely the player shouldn't just be "told" who their cohort is either,


Frankthedm wrote:

Benefits: This feat enables you to attract a loyal cohort and a number of devoted subordinates who assist you. A cohort is generally an NPC with class levels, while followers are typically lower level NPCs. See Table: Leadership for what level of cohort and how many followers you can recruit.

Hard to attract a character before they are statted up. Conversely the player shouldn't just be "told" who their cohort is either,

I disagree. The PC takes the Leadership Feat and the in-game effect is that his character starts asking around for a cohort. An NPC applicant shows to inquire about the job. While the PC does not "pay" him like a hireling, he does have to feed and care for the cohort, who also learns experience as well.

The PC can always dismiss that NPC if he isn't satisfied and try for another one, but the next one could be the same or worse.

It's hard to find good help these days.


Related question: If the PCs are using a higher-than-standard point buy (for example, 20), should cohorts and animal companions have increased Ability Scores to match the adjustment?

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SmiloDan wrote:

I think its vagueness is a liability. It seems to lead to a lot of conflict between the GM and the player, and it also sounds like each group interprets the feat very differently.

Some allow the PC to design the cohort, some have the GM make a cohort with some player influence, sometimes the player has to choose from some pre-made by the GM, sometimes the GM tells the player what they get, etc. etc. And sometimes the GM changes the feat every time it's used--sometimes even in the same campaign.

I've only played with Leadership once, and the PC was an aristocrat/bard and his cohort was a gnome cleric/rogue in a campaign where the other PCs were a scout and a ranger/wizard/truenamer, and eventually a paladin, so it wasn't overpowered. I played the scout. This was 3.5.

I think Pathfinder should errata it. Throw in some standardization. Build the NPC using the same rules as the PCs, and let the player make the character, since it's the player's feat and the player is the one that will be controlling that character. Obviously, the cohort shouldn't overshadow the other PCs. After all, PCs already have druid and ranger animal companions, paladin and cavalier mounts, summoner eidolons, and sorcerer, witch, and wizard familiars (and Improved Familiars).

Its vagueness is its strength. The cohort is not always controlled by the player. In some campaigns, the cohort is controlled by the GM. Some GMs use the cohort as a plot hook, or use an existing NPC from a published adventure to become the cohort when a PC takes the feat. Sometimes, a cohort is a creature, not an NPC.

As a GM, I like this flexibility. I have used all of these options in the past, and they have all worked well.

Using the Leadership feat impacts more than just the PC, it can impact the entire campaign, which is why the feat is written the way it is. It is not like other feats that grant a flat ability/bonus to the character. This feat actually adds another character to the adventuring group, and needs some input from both the player and the GM to make sure it fits the campaign. Remember, the Leadership feat used to be in the Dungeon Master's Guide back in 3.0/3.5, not the Player's Handbook, insinuating the GM should be involved with any player taking this feat.


Thanis Kartaleon wrote:
Related question: If the PCs are using a higher-than-standard point buy (for example, 20), should cohorts and animal companions have increased Ability Scores to match the adjustment?

No. Each character received one bump in power, their increased stats. Bumping the animal companions would be another bump in power, this time it would only apply to characters with the animal companion ability. The Character already had their leadership score affected by their (potentially) increased Charisma.

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