Non-anthropocentric thread


Off-Topic Discussions


Probably what I remember SJ Gould for most was his dogged attempts to combat the idea that humans are the best/most powerful/most important thing in the universe.

Although any designation of most salient features must reflect the interests of the observer, I challenge anyone with professional training in evolutionary theory to defend the extending tip of the right tail as more definitive or more portentous than the persistence in one place, and constant growth in height, of the bacterial mode. The recorded history of life began with bacteria 3.5 billion years ago, continued as a tale of prokaryotic unicells alone for probably more than a billion years, and has never experienced a shift in the modal position of complexity. We do not live in what older books called "the age of man" (1 species), or "the age of mammals" (4000 species among more than a million for the animal kingdom alone), or even in "the age of arthropods" (a proper designation if we restrict our focus to the Metazoa, but surely not appropriate if we include all life on earth). We live, if we must designate an exemplar at all, in a persisting "age of bacteria"-the organisms that were in the beginning , are now, and probably ever shall be (until the sun runs out of fuel) the dominant creatures on earth by any standard evolutionary criterion of biochemical diversity, range of habitats, resistance to extinction, and perhaps, if the "deep hot biosphere" of bacteria within subsurface rocks matches the upper estimates for spread and abundance, even in biomass. I will only remind colleagues of Woese's "three-domain" model for life's full genealogy, a previously surprising but now fully accepted, and genetically documented, scheme displaying the phylogenetic triviality of all multicellular existence (a different issue, I fully admit, from ecological importance). Life's tree is, effectively, a bacterial bush. Two of the three domains belong to prokaryotes alone, while the three kingdoms of multicellular eukaryotes (plants, animals, and fungi) appear as three twigs at the terminus of the third domain.


When bacteria - or anything else not human - can create art, culture, stories that make one laugh, cry, think, or feel, or anything else other than simply live, eat, and reproduce, call me. Til then, not impressed.

It's all in how you define "importance".


Great, now the zombie ants are posting on Paizo boards.


Orthos wrote:

When bacteria - or anything else not human - can create art, culture, stories that make one laugh, cry, think, or feel, or anything else other than simply live, eat, and reproduce, call me. Til then, not impressed.

It's all in how you define "importance".

How do you know that bacteria do not?

Dark Archive

Urizen wrote:
How do you know that bacteria do not?

I've never seen them do any of that.

Sovereign Court

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Orthos wrote:
When bacteria can create culture...

LOL!! Bacterial cultures! Bwahahahahah ... oh wait. ;)


I sort of think bacteria are so diverse that it is misleading to consider "bacteria" as dominant. Many different sorts of bacteria survive in many different ecological niches to be sure, but it seems to trivialize the concept of species* dominance to make the claim you are making. And if you are going to trivialize that, then you should be forthright about it.

You have to ask why the concept of species dominance is important before you go around assigning things as dominant. The answer could be anything from "the furtherance of control over the state of the universe" to "surviving" to "who cares?"

As far as "surviving" goes, plenty of unicellular organisms are good at that, yeah. Is that the only reason we care about stuff like this, though? Maybe, but probably not.

*I realize bacteria encompass more than a species, that's just the easiest term to refer to what I guess is lifeform dominance or something.


the David wrote:
Urizen wrote:
How do you know that bacteria do not?
I've never seen them do any of that.

From a humancentric perspective, sure. But if you ask the bacterium whether they've seen humans exhibit similar behavior, I wonder what their take on the topic is. Perhaps we're the norm deviance?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I prefer humans. We can, for instance, debate on whether or not bacteria are cool.

Bacteria only get to be microscopic jelly.

zylphryx wrote:
Orthos wrote:
When bacteria can create culture...

LOL!! Bacterial cultures! Bwahahahahah ... oh wait. ;)

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS


Urizen wrote:
Orthos wrote:

When bacteria - or anything else not human - can create art, culture, stories that make one laugh, cry, think, or feel, or anything else other than simply live, eat, and reproduce, call me. Til then, not impressed.

It's all in how you define "importance".

How do you know that bacteria do not?

If it can't be communicated to me in any way, what difference is there between it existing but unable to communicate and not existing at all? ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oddly, people have the same debate about this God individual ... and tend to take the opposing conclusion.

I wonder if bacteria find the discussion relevant. ;-)


Touche. When the bacteria write a book I'll be sure to look into it ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think humanity sucks.
I think the edifice of human culture, however, is pretty awesome and needs to be preserved. Not on the backs of the rest of the global ecosystem though.


Orthos wrote:
Touche. When the bacteria write a book I'll be sure to look into it ;)

Maybe they've gone beyond that stage of recording information to be passed along and we just haven't figured it out yet. Heck, we're just now getting a hang of this e-tablet format.

Maybe we're making this all too complicated?


Urizen wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Touche. When the bacteria write a book I'll be sure to look into it ;)

Maybe they've gone beyond that stage of recording information to be passed along and we just haven't figured it out yet. Heck, we're just now getting a hang of this e-tablet format.

Maybe we're making this all too complicated?

Hustler comes pretty close.


Urizen wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Touche. When the bacteria write a book I'll be sure to look into it ;)
Maybe they've gone beyond that stage of recording information to be passed along and we just haven't figured it out yet.

Welp then we're right back at square one. I'm starting to get a mite dizzy.


So I see how it really is!

You guys are just lobbyists for the Bacteria Conglomerate!

Yer not getting them wobbly microcellular apendixes on me money, ya prokaryotic sneeze aftertastes!


THERE IS NO ESCAPE.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Orthos wrote:
Welp then we're right back at square one. I'm starting to get a mite dizzy.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Exchange

While highly doubtful that bacteria do this, I would point out that: Corvids have been seen having funerals, Dolphins will play what can only be described as a form of soccer using jellyfish as a ball and some great apes have been known to paint if given finger paints and a canvas.


Raddish is a meat.

The Exchange

Gark the Goblin wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Welp then we're right back at square one. I'm starting to get a mite dizzy.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm here all week.


Yay!! More SJG love!

When someone asked J.B.S. Haldane if a study of nature revealed anything about God, he answered "An inordinate fondness for beetles."

Hee hee!

Community / Forums / Gamer Life / Off-Topic Discussions / Non-anthropocentric thread All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.