Synthesist Rules Question

[Quandary]

Aezion wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

With all due respect... you are not ready to play a complicated class like the summoner, especially the synthesist. I suggest playing a Core class like a cleric (still one of the best classes in the game, BTW) until you're a little more fluent in the basics...

But right now? You're just asking for trouble. For your own sake, I strongly advise shelving this idea for now. You're only going to frustrate yourself.

the reason I asked was in the tables for the eidolon it does not say multiple attacks, but has a BAB equal to it's HD. In classes like fighter it goes +11/+6/+1 in the BAB section. And I read the base rule book for what you said looking at BAB, Attacks, full round actions, more then one attack and so forth. The reason why I asked is it is confusing because usually there is no rule oversights.

Also the line "With all due respect," is basically a nice way of saying eat S#@$.

The reason I asked in the first place all of these questions is that there is no straight answer for them in the rules. I've never been to a Pathfinder society game, but I have played quite a few characters in private play.

Seriously, unless you've really built up an image of yourself as a PRPG rules expert, there is NO REASON to take offence when somebody suggests that you are not one. Really, it's not that an impressive thing to have attained in the first place. All he's saying is that the Summoner and ESPECIALY the Synthesist are just MINEFIELDS of problems to play if you are already not an expert. ...That's why they are in the ADVANCED player's guide (albeit some classes introduced there aren't all that complicated, e.g. Cavalier).

I 'second' Jiggy's advice: just using the Core classes, mostly without advanced options/variations, is the best way to get better at the rules. If you aren't a rules expert, playing a Class like Synthesist is just going to mean that the rules will too often get in the way of role-playing and adventure.

[Curaigh]

Aezion wrote:

Also the line "With all due respect," is basically a nice way of saying eat S#@$.

...

Not where I come from. It means: I am not attacking you personally, we do not agree on this [statement].

And it does not mean that on the Paizo boards.
And especially not from Jiggy. :)

If you are new to the boards (read: 11 posts), you will learn this soon enough. The folks here ARE trying to help. Because you asked them too. It is a good place to hang out AND especially to ask questions like you did. Welcome to PFS, you will be glad you joined. :)

[Jiggy]

Aezion wrote:

Also the line "With all due respect," is basically a nice way of saying eat S#@$.

I know you don't have much reason to believe this, but I'll say it anyway: I really, honestly meant you no disrespect. I want you to have fun playing in PFS. Synthesists take a lot of research to run smoothly. I just want you to have a good time.

[Aezion]

Jiggy wrote:

Aezion wrote:

Also the line "With all due respect," is basically a nice way of saying eat S#@$.

I know you don't have much reason to believe this, but I'll say it anyway: I really, honestly meant you no disrespect. I want you to have fun playing in PFS. Synthesists take a lot of research to run smoothly. I just want you to have a good time.

sorry, used to the internet is all...

and I'm talking with the GM I will be playing with to work out all that needs to be done like if it's alright if I even bring it to the table.

[MisterSlanky]

Aezion wrote:

and I'm talking with the GM I will be playing with to work out all that needs to be done like if it's alright if I even bring it to the table.

I thought you were playing PFS. If you are, the GM can't restrict you at all if it's in the additional resources list.

I still say this is a bad, bad idea.

[Skerek]

Aezion wrote:

all I've gotten was some posts about how I should not play a Synthesist and how my table etiquette will suck because I will flaunt my amazing character and gimp any of the other player just from the get go because I have a tendency to optimize.

Aezion, a word of warning, everyone here as advised to be careful with the synthesist. Some might accuse you of over optimizing (or MinMaxing), but I won't. I'll just point out that I have GMed a local player with a synthesist that he tried to gimp(it has 12 cha and i don't think it has any dump stats) and it's still above the power curve.

My advice? Play a character that is good, capable of performing, don't MinMax the crap out of your character, just make sure they're not horrible and can contribute. The most fun I've had in PFS is when the table just manages to pull through by the skin of their teeth, the players and GM sitting at the edge of their seats as some one makes that all important roll. You remember those scenarios. As for the scenarios where everyone plays MinMaxed characters and the combat is over in 2 rounds, you finish the scenario thinking "Yeah! We spanked that scenario" and then later struggle to remember what happened in the scenario. Soon you find PFS becomes a blur, missions all the same, because you don't remember anything unique from the scenarios.

Jiggy wrote:

Grick wrote:

Generally, you should probably choose all your archetypes when you create the character.

Alternate Class Features: "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."

PFS actually has a special rule that you can pick an archetype any time before reaching the first level where something actually changes.

I don't think this is quite correct, I'm pretty sure when you create a character you need to decide on the archetypes straight away. Then rule for applying archetypes after first level comes in when new material is released and you'd like to give a current character an archetype.

[Aezion]

Skerek wrote:

Aezion wrote:

all I've gotten was some posts about how I should not play a Synthesist and how my table etiquette will suck because I will flaunt my amazing character and gimp any of the other player just from the get go because I have a tendency to optimize.

Aezion, a word of warning, everyone here as advised to be careful with the synthesist. Some might accuse you of over optimizing (or MinMaxing), but I won't. I'll just point out that I have GMed a local player with a synthesist that he tried to gimp(it has 12 cha and i don't think it has any dump stats) and it's still above the power curve.

My advice? Play a character that is good, capable of performing, don't MinMax the crap out of your character, just make sure they're not horrible and can contribute. The most fun I've had in PFS is when the table just manages to pull through by the skin of their teeth, the players and GM sitting at the edge of their seats as some one makes that all important roll. You remember those scenarios. As for the scenarios where everyone plays MinMaxed characters and the combat is over in 2 rounds, you finish the scenario thinking "Yeah! We spanked that scenario" and then later struggle to remember what happened in the scenario. Soon you find PFS becomes a blur, missions all the same, because you don't remember anything unique from the scenarios.

Jiggy wrote:

Grick wrote:

Generally, you should probably choose all your archetypes when you create the character.

Alternate Class Features: "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."

PFS actually has a special rule that you can pick an archetype any time before reaching the first level where something actually changes.

I don't think this is quite correct, I'm pretty sure when you create a character you...

well here is what I'm thinking, I'm going to role play my character very heavily and play a support caster role with the early haste and what not, and only when there is a real threat of death I will go into action mode, making sure that all my other tablemates have a good time while, having a "get out of jail" free card for when it really calls for it.

like adding the personal handy cap that my eidolon only comes out in stressful situations. I just want to have a way to make the really harsh plays when a level 11 wizard is about to get wasted I can save them and allow them to keep all that play time.

I know I hate it when I loose progress in something, so if I can spare some one else that feeling then I'm doing my job I guess.

[Skerek]

Aezion wrote:

adding the personal handy cap that my eidolon only comes out in stressful situations.

It takes a minute (10 rounds) to summon your eidolon. You really won't have time to 'suit up' when things start turning sour. Although throwing out summoned creatures as a standard action is great. You seem to have the right class, just not the right archetype...

[LazarX]

Aezion wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

Aezion wrote:

Also the line "With all due respect," is basically a nice way of saying eat S#@$.

I know you don't have much reason to believe this, but I'll say it anyway: I really, honestly meant you no disrespect. I want you to have fun playing in PFS. Synthesists take a lot of research to run smoothly. I just want you to have a good time.

sorry, used to the internet is all...

and I'm talking with the GM I will be playing with to work out all that needs to be done like if it's alright if I even bring it to the table.

This is the Paizo message boards. Not every site uses 4chan as the standard for conduct.

[LazarX]

To play a synthesist, not only do you need to understand base mechanics. You need to go over the Eidolon mechanics with a fine tooth comb.

And then you're only halfway done because you then have to restudy how multiple attacks work on monsters, How monsters with multiple limbs and weapons work together, and then you have to go back and re read all that Eidolon material to see how all this stuff gets put together.

And then you have to recompile all this for that one twice dammed archetype because it's bunch of exceptions to a class that's already got a cartload of them.

I will probably never allow this archetype in my home campaigns period, because after all is said and done, I find this aesthetically ugly, not something that adds to the beauty of a campaign once all this effort is said and done. I'll have to judge them as a PFS judge, but I'll be hornswaggled before I have to put up with them as a home GM.

[Seraphimpunk]

you will have two characters: the synthesist without his fused form, and the synthesist with his fused form.

look out for Constitution fluctuations ( 10 con unfused, 13 con fused, leads to you having more hit points when fused, and more temporary hit points. but when those temporary hit points are gone, the fused form ends and you're back to weakling mode. possibly unconscious due to his constitution decreasing. )

keep in mind they're temporary hit points, and not healed by anything other than your own rejuvinate eidolon chain of spells.

you'll only be able to transfer damage from your fused eidolon to yourself when an attack would reduce its temporary hit points to 0.

for a beginning character, so that you can heal yourself, recommend a Bipedal base form, something with arms to facilitate spell casting and wand use. Otherwise healing your eidolon/repairing your eidolon suit becomes a major problem.

If you don't take Rejuvinate Eidolon, Lesser as one of your spells known right away, be sure to spend 2 prestige for a 1st level wand after the first game, so that you have a wand you can use to heal up your eidolon suit.

good luck.

[Grick]

Skerek wrote:

I'm pretty sure when you create a character you need to decide on the archetypes straight away. Then rule for applying archetypes after first level comes in when new material is released and you'd like to give a current character an archetype.

PFS Guide to Organized Play v4.1, Page 5: "If you wish to apply a legal archetype to your character, you may do so at 1st level as normal. Additionally, you may apply an archetype to an existing class any time you level up as long as the first alternate ability does not replace an ability granted at a previous level."

[Seraphimpunk]

( thats mainly a nice way to take say a fighter at 1st level, and then a new book comes out with cool stuff you want, you can then, at 2nd level say i want some cool new stuff from the book, even though it wasnt out at 1st level when i made the character, and partake of the cool-stuff-buffet )