Okay, so I've made a Two-Weapon Fighter with a high crit rate in mind and have purposely avoided going down the Two-Weapon Fighter Archetype route to make sure I get Armour Training and Weapon Training.
Str: 16
Dex: 17 (+2 Human)
Con: 14
Wis: 12
Int: 10
Cha: 7
+ 1 hp Favoured Class - Fighter
+ 1 skill per level
Trait: Auspiscious Tattoo (Shoanti) - +1 Will Saves
1. Big Game Hunter +1 atk and dodge against larger foes, Rage
2. Jotungrip - Falchion, Rage Power - Knockback
Weapons: Falchion (2d4 - 18/20x2) in main hand, Scimitar (1d6 - 18/20x2) in Off Hand.
Note: The Off-Hand Weapon will no longer be a Scimitar because I realised you need to be the level 11 Archetype before you can have a 1-handed weapon in your off-hand as a light weapon.
Weapon Training - Heavy Blades
Armour Training
Feats:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Double Slice
2.
3. Weapon Focus - Falchion, Improved Initiative
4. Weapon Specialisation - Falchion
5. Iron Will
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Hammer The Gap
8. Improved Critical - Falchion
9. Critical Focus
10. Improved Critical - Scimitar
11. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12. Two-Weapon Rend
13. Greater Weapon Specialisation - Falchion
14. Lightning Reflexes
15. Greater Weapon Focus - Falchion
16. Power Attack
17. Improved Bull Rush
18. Greater Bull Rush
Skills:
Acrobatics - 7
Climb - 7
Perception - 5
Survival - 5
4 at level 1 and 2, 3 from level 3 onwards
Equipment:
Falchion 75gp, 7 lb's
Scimitar 15gp, 4 lb's
Scale Mail (upgrade to Breastplate or Full Plate later) 50gp, 30lb's
140gp, 41lb's
My only problem is that with a Scimitar in my Off Hand and with the Jotungrip feat, my Attack Bonus would have a huge penalty at -6 primary, -4 off hand.
I don't think the Titan Mauler Barb can lower the -2 penalty for wielding a 2-handed weapon in one hand, because it seems it only does it for weapons that are oversized for you.
Is it worth going with a Short Sword instead, dealing 1d6 damage but at a lower crit rate, or grabbing exotic weapon proficiency for a wakizashi which has the 18-20 crit range I want?
Even if I had a light weapon in my off-hand, due to wielding a Falchion in my primary hand, I'd still have a penalty of -4, -2 to hit and I don't think there's any way around that.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If general effectiveness is your goal, my very first suggestion would be to ditch having a two-handed weapon in your main hand. The extra attack penalty is generally not worth the damage bonus (and as you have guessed, you can't reduce the penalty). For best results, just grab a couple of Kukris. Same 18-20 crit range, and all of your Focus and Specialization feats will be applying to both weapons at once. This will work with Wakizashis as well, but using an Exotic Weapon Proficiency for an average of +1 damage/hit isn't a trade I would make.
Hammer the Gap isn't as helpful as one would think. Even with a very high attack bonus, your iteratives will have a good chance of missing, meaning you lose both the larger damage bonuses and the further increase in damage. I remember someone running the math when it first came out, and the results were rather disappointing.
Power Attack, on the other hand, will be an important source of extra damage (even with two-weapon fighting). I'd strongly recommend it before 16. As in, I'd recommend it at level 1.
Also, I just noticed, you don't have any Critical feats! The big reason people use critical builds is to pile status effects on enemies. Staggering, Blinding, Stunning... there are a lot of great options. I'd recommend looking into them.
I agree with Mort.
For hammer the gap to be really good, you need a lot of attacks. Like say a character with a natural bite and more than two arms. You'd generally be better off with power attack. Versus opponents with reasonably high AC (around 36 probably -- I don't want to do the specific maths) you'd want to use your regular, non-power attacks, unless there's DR.
I see that your build has both power attack and hammer the gap, but in general they don't have the best synergy.
I think the formula for hammer the gap damage, in case you're interested, is:
(Hits/2)*(Hits-1)
Ah yea, I actually only planned to grab Power Attack at the end for improved Bull Rush, but I had a play with my build to see what it'd be like plain Fighter and I guess it's better because there's less of a penalty.
Only reason I didn't like Power Attack too much for this build was because of the fact you're already gimped enough as it is. A -2, -2 isn't fun.
Anyway, this is what I've changed it:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Wakizashi, Double Slice
2. Iron Will
3. Weapon Focus - Wakizashi
4. Weapon Specialisation - Wakizashi
5. Improved Initiative
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Power Attack
8. Improved Critical - Wakizashi
9. Critical Focus
10. Hammer The Gap
11. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12. Two-Weapon Rend
13. Greater Weapon Specialisation - Wakizashi
14. Lightning Reflexes
15. Greater Weapon Focus - Wakizashi
16.
17.
It seemed like a good idea giving this guy a Jotungrip to fight with a two-handed weapon in one hand, but the attack bonus wold only have reached a max of 28 by end game (level 17), with all of the weapon bonuses added to it etc.
So, I probably wouldn't have much luck hitting at later levels if I did that, even if it was a cool idea. Unless generally in AP's, end boss AC's aren't as high as 48 usually? :/
No idea what else to take Feat wise. I seem to have everything I want.
I don't personally like Improved Initiative for a melee character. As a melee character I actually prefer going later, so that casters can buff me and the enemy can waste its action closing with me before I have to act. I mean, you can use delay to act when you want, but if one does that often enough it makes the value of a using a feat to buff initiative questionable.
I really can't recommend looking at Critical Feats enough. Personally, I'd drop Hammer The Gap and Lightning Reflexes and move the Greater Weapon stuff earlier so I could use my feats for Staggering Critical, Blinding Critical, Critical Versatility (from the Advanced Race Guide), and then Critical Mastery at 16. At 17 use Critical Versatility for Stunning Critical, and every time you crit you will be forcing the enemy to make two saves at nearly DC30 to not be severely weakened. They are very powerful options that I can't recommend enough for this build.
@Mort - Really? I'll only have a +9 to Will Saves by end game and that's with a +1 Will Save trait, Iron Will and a +1 to Wisdom, which is terrible. :(
I've gone with Half-Elf now, as I'd have had to have gotten Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the Wazikashi anyway, so now I have low light vision and a bonus to perception, along with sleep spell immunity.
@Matt - I won't do that with this build, but that's interesting if it counts as two-weapons and a two-handed weapon. O_o
What are we talking about with Will saves? Is it the acting first with Improved Initiative thing? Because you aren't likely to be able to run up to an enemy and kill it before it can act to fire off a spell on you. Or dropping Lightning Reflexes? Because that boosts reflex, not will. Those are the only things I can think of that my last post mentioned that might have been interpreted as related to Will.
Anyway, if you are going Half-Elf, might a recommend Dual Minded instead of Ancestral Arms? As you said, your Will save is pretty weak, while your offense is already very strong, so it is a choice to consider.
Ah, I must have imagined things then, as I thought you said to drop Iron Will.
Dual Minded is definitely a good option, but sadly I need Exotic Weapon Proficiency and don't see any other easy way to get that. I really wouldn't know what to swap it out for and changing the order for all of my feats seems a little annoying. :/
This is my latest build, though I'm a bit disappointed to see there's nothing for a Human, Elf or Half-Elf to gain Perception as a Class Skill:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Additional Traits, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Wakizashi (Ancestral Arms)
2. Double Slice
3. Weapon Focus - Wakizashi
4. Weapon Specialisation - Wakizashi
5. Iron Will
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Power Attack
8. Improved Critical - Wakizashi
9. Critical Focus
10. Toughness
11. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12. Two-Weapon Rend
13. Greater Weapon Specialisation - Wakizashi
14. Lightning Reflexes
15. Greater Weapon Focus - Wakizashi
16. Staggering Critical
17. Stunning Critical
Elven Immunities - Immune to Sleep effects, +2 Saves vs Enchantment Spells and effects
Low-light vision
Keen Senses - +2 Perception
Traits:
Carefully Hidden (Race) - +1 Will Saves, +2 Saves vs Divination Effects
Reactionary (Combat) - +2 Initiative
Rich Parents (Social) or something that gives me Perception as a Class Skill, though I've found no Elven or Human traits
that do.
Languages: Common and Elven
Skills:
Acrobatics - 7
Climb - 7
Survival - 5
Nah, because I need the feats from the Fighter Class for this and Rangers only get one every other level, minus the Combat Feats and level up feats they get for being a Ranger.
I've not ever used a Ranger before because I just don't see them being that good, but I did make a build once for a Ranged Stealth Sniper....just without the ability to Snipe properly, as strangely the Sniper Archetype doesn't get around that problem. Only a Halfling gains the -10 sniping instead of -20.
That build was this (I haven't used it yet):
Fighter - Archer
Rogue - Sniper
Focus Dex and strength
Half-Elf:
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 9
Wis: 16
Int: 10
Cha: 7
Composite Longbow - 1d8 + 2 x3
Perception: 2, 3, 3, 1 = 9
Survival: 3, 1, 3 = 7
Fort: 1
Ref: 4
Will: 3
BAB: 1
Initiative: 10
Traits: Elven reflexes
Favoured Classes: Fighter and Rogue, both with HP
HP: 13
AC: 17
Studded Leather Armour: +3 AC
Half-Elf abilities:
Low-Light Vision: Half-elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Additional Rules.
Adaptability: Half-elves receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities: Half-elves are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Keen Senses: Half-elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Feats:
Level 1 - Point Blank Shot, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus Perception
Level 2 - Precise Shot
Level 3 - Rapid Shot
Level 4 -
Level 5 - Deadly Aim
Level 6 - Weapon Focus
Level 7 - Manyshot
Level 8 -
Level 9 - Weapon Specialisation
Level 10 - Improved Critical
Level 11 - Critical Focus
Level 12 -
Level 13 - Clustered Shots
Level 14 - Greater Weapon Focus
Level 15 - Opening Volley
Level 16 - Extra Ki
Level 17 - Extra Ki
Level 18 - Greater Weapon Specialisation
Level 19 - Stunning Critical
Level 20 - Sneaking Precision
Build:
level 1 - Fighter
Level 2 - Fighter
Level 3 - Rogue
Level 4 - Fighter
Level 5 - Rogue
Level 6 - Fighter
Level 7 - Rogue
Level 8 - Fighter
Level 9 - Rogue
Level 10 - Fighter
Level 11 - Rogue
Level 12 - Fighter
Level 13 - Rogue
Level 14 - Fighter
Level 15 - Fighter
Level 16 - Fighter
Level 17 - Fighter
Level 18 - Fighter
Level 19 - Fighter
Level 20 - Fighter
4 Rogue Talents:
Sniper's Eye (Ex): A rogue with this talent can apply her sneak attack damage on ranged attacks targeting foes within 30 feet that benefit from concealment. Foes with total concealment are still immune.
Ki Pool (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a small ki pool. This ki pool is similar to a ninja's ki pool, but the rogue's ki pool does not grant any extra attacks. The rogue gains a number of ki points equal to her Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These ki points replenish at the start of each day. If she already has a ki pool, or gains a ki pool later, she gains half her Wisdom bonus (minimum 1) as bonus ki points to her ki pool. She can spend a ki point to gain a +10-foot bonus to movement until the end of her turn.
Ninja Trick (Ex): A rogue with this talent can choose a trick from the ninja trick list. The rogue can choose but cannot use talents that require ki points, unless she has a ki pool. A rogue can pick this talent more than once.
~ Vanishing Trick (Su): As a swift action, the ninja can disappear for 1 round per level. This ability functions as invisibility. Using this ability uses up 1 ki point.
Note: As Vanishing Trick comes with Ninja Trick, I'd probably get another Rogue Talent.
Maybe multi-classing in this sense is better than having a Ranged (Ranger) Archer? :/
|
Here is a link to something very similar to what you have. It's a fighter with two wakazashis who focuses on crits. He's great.
Ah, wow. I've almost created an exact copy of that build without even realising or seeing it beforehand.
Still, I quite like my build and have swapped out Power Attack for Two-Weapon Defense because you're already at a penalty with -2 to each hit. I don't need that to go down any further. :(
I like the idea of a Half-Elf Two-Weapon Fighter. Seems pretty cool and Weapon Training will really help me, especially when I can boost my Str and get a +5 weapon! :D
Guess this is a much more effective build than my original Falchion Jotungrip concept and doesn't change my theme too much as I wanted to have two weapons with the same crit range at 18-20x2 and we play with Crit Cards, so the multiplier isn't even a problem.
|
Personally I don't know that it's worth blowing a feat on wakazashi's when the Kukri gives you pretty much the same benefit without costing a feat... If you're not playing in a PFS game you may be able to convince your GM to allow the 'River Rat' +1 trait bonus to damage to apply to a kukri as well as daggers if the average +1 damage gained from the wakazashi is that important to you.
I also think you should reconsider the Ranger. If you've never played one before you will be blown away by what you can do with an abundance of skill ranks and how much funner it makes every situation outside of combat when you can contribute effectively.
Ranger gets fewer feats but he ignores pre-reqs and gets early entry for GTWF or TW Rend. I think this is a valid benefit because the majority of games never get to the highest levels.. Ergo, anything you can get earlier has a greater benefit.
I'm actually going to make a few various TWF builds to compare them side-by-side at certain levels to satisfy my own curiousity...
Here is an odd TWF build i have just started working on.
Str 17 #+2 race
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 07
Feats:
Half elf Exotic Weapon *Boarding Gaff
F1 Combat Reflexes
L1 Weapon Focus
F2 Combat Expertese
F2 Improved Trip (don't really need this so maybe power attack in stead)
L3 Two Weapon Fighting
F4 Weapon Spec +1 Str
L5 Double Slice
F6 Two Weapon Defense/Shield of Swings/or Greater Trip
L7 Power Attack (if not at lvl 2)
So level by level
1st +5 1d6+4 CMB +5 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
2nd +6 1d6+4 CMB +8 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
3rd +5/+5 1d6+3/1d6+1 CMB +9 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
4th +7/+7 1d6+6/1d6+4 CMB +11 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
5th +9/+9 1d6+7/1d6+7 CMB +13 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
6th +10/+10/+5 1d6+7 /1d6+7/1d6+7 CMB +14 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
7th +9/+9/+4 1d6+11/1d6+9/1d6+11 CMB +15 with reach, trip and 3 AoOs that can trip
*Boarding Gaff: A gaff hook is a long pole with a hook on one end for spearing fish. Pirates often add extra, heavier hooks to both ends of gaff hooks to assist with boarding actions. After the pirates use grappling hooks to draw ships close together, they hook the gunwales together with boarding gaffs to prevent the ships from drifting. Small crafts often use boarding gaffs in place of grappling hooks.
Boarding gaffs bite deeply into the wood of the railing. It takes 1 minute to pry a boarding gaff loose. Most pirates use a boarding axe or cutlass to cut through boarding gaffs rather than trying to unhook them one by one.
The gaff can also be used for fishing when not in combat.
Boarding gaff 8 gp 1d4/1d4 1d6/1d6 ×2 — 8 lbs. S Double, reach, trip
Probably not optimal as such but seems like fun to me.