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Simple question: Can someone move their full movement rate and use stealth?
When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
This suggests that you must move slower than your normal speed (at least 5'/round slower?), so a human without the Fast Stealth rogue trick could double move 50'/single move 25' and a halfling could double move 30'/single move 15', while accepting the -5 penalty?
There doesn't seem to be an allowance for a full double or single move with stealth, even with the Swift as Shadows Halfling Trait.
We've always played it that you get the -5 penalty if you move more than half and up to your normal speed.
I could argue it either way. By strict RAW, a human could move up to 25', and a halfling up to 15' and use Stealth at -5.
Your Speed is defined by your race. A human's is 30', and a Halfling's is 20'.
If you double move your movement exceeds your speed (more often than not, anyway). Exceeding your speed prevents you from using Stealth.
On the other hand, your movement speed (how far you choose to move with any given action) is also mentioned, and as far as I'm concerned it means that as long as you move less than your speed for each action, you can use Stealth at -5. A single Stealth check would cover both actions if you decide to double move.
You can do a full move followed by another move at 25 feet to stealth, assuming your base speed is 30. It mentions that you have to move less than full. Stealth is done during a move action, so 55 feet is probably the maximum.
Hey, at least you can withdraw and stealth, judging from how it's written.
Technically you can also use lightning stance to grant you stealth, too. Some try to say you can't, but concealment is concealment.
How I have always understood it:
A human has a move speed of 30'. If they move 15' as a single move action they take no penalty. If they move 30' as a double move action they take no penalty. If they move more than this in either case (20'-30' as a single or 35'-60' as a full round action ) then they take that -5 penalty.
How I arrive at this: Speed is defined as the speed a character moves when taking a single move action. Half your speed does not preclude taking a double move.
- Gauss
Can you show me the page that it states 'less than a full move'? I did a PDF search and could find nothing in the entirety of the CRB.
- Gauss
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/stealth.html#_stealth
It mentions moving at a slower speed then stealthing. I think it means apart of the same action.
Sauce, that is not 'less than a full move'. It is the same information in the CRB. I think Greycloak got confused and was momentarily quoting 3.5 material. However, thanks.
I have sent James Jacobs a query regarding if 1/2 of speed means a move action or the entire turn's movement. As I was reading all of the incidences of 'normal speed' there was enough question in my mind (esp with survival) that I figured it was worth asking him.
- Gauss
Sauce, that is not 'less than a full move'. It is the same information in the CRB. I think Greycloak got confused and was momentarily quoting 3.5 material. However, thanks.
I have sent James Jacobs a query regarding if 1/2 of speed means a move action or the entire turn's movement. As I was reading all of the incidences of 'normal speed' there was enough question in my mind (esp with survival) that I figured it was worth asking him.
- Gauss
What is not less than a full move? The link that mentions it, or my interpretation of the rule?
And the verdict is:
Gauss wrote:
James Jacobs,Regarding movement and stealth I have a question:
Assuming a human's speed is 30
A move is 30 and double move 60.
When using stealth it states that 1/2 normal speed is no modifier but beyond normal speed is a -5. There is an question on how this interacts with double moves.So, when moving half of my double move speed, which of the following is true?
A) I take a double move and move 30feet with no penalty.
B) I take a double move and move 30feet with a -5penalty.Thanks in advance.
- Gauss
A
Thus: half of normal speed means half of a single move. IF you take a double move it is half of that. Anything over half of single or half of double and you are at a -5penalty.
Of course, this is James Jacobs learned opinion rather than a ruling. Feel free to disagree with it.
- Gauss
I would say that with a single move you can move either 15' with no penalty or 30' with a -5penalty. With a double move you can move either 30' with no penalty or 60' with a -5penalty.
- Gauss
Actually, I believe the language of the skill does. Your quote of "less than a full move" does not exist in the core rulebook that I can find.
- Gauss
Edit: I reread it, the line below seems to be the problem:
When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty.
You appear to be correct, you can go up to 55 but not 60 and take a -5penalty. Clearly a case of bad wording.
I have always sen the -5 as a penalty to the stealth skill not the movement
Lobolusk, the problem is there is a 'dead zone' of speed at 30 and then again at 60 (assuming a move speed of 30).
The following assumes a move speed of 30.
For single move actions you have the following:
From 5'-15' you are at or below half and thus have no penalty.
From 20'-25' you are at a -5 stealth skill penalty.
But at 30' what happens? There is no penalty listed for 'normal speed'.
For double move actions you have the following:
From 10'-30' you are at or below half and thus have no penalty.
From 35'-55' you are at a -5 stealth skill penalty.
But at 60' what happens? There is no penalty listed for 'normal speed'.
Personally, I think it is just bad wording (like most of the speed related problems).
- Gauss
| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Here is response 1 (posted above initially)
Short answer: the verbage leaves a dead zone that James suggests we ignore. Treat it as -5 skill check penalty when moving over half speed up to (and including) full speed.
- Gauss
Edit:
Gauss wrote:
James, thankfully Im the GM in my own games so this is not an issue in mine. Even in an upcoming game where I will not be the GM I am the declared 'keeper of the rules' (I know them better than our upcoming GM).This is just a case where someone had a question on the rules board and I was going off the same idea you have only to see the RAPW problem appear. Perhaps you can bump this up to those people who make minor verbage corrections?
- Gauss
I could. But it's also not a bad idea to hit the FAQ button on the thread where the question first came up.
Time to FAQ this.
ressurection.
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Please add this issue to the CRB FAQ. It came up in our game last night and the poor wording relating to the skill penalty at full movement rate w/o fast stealth has still not been formally corrected (@6+ years). Also, there is no indication for what happens beyond the max normal movement rate, such as with haste.
The ARG has better wording for the Shadowy Dash feat.
Normal: When moving at more than half your speed and up to your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty on Stealth checks.