This is a very spoilerific thread, and I need some advice from GMs who have run or are familiar with Night of the Frozen Shadows. Long story short, my players are feeling frustrated with this part of the Adventure Path, feeling they've endured nothing but setbacks and that they've encountered nothing but obstacles at every turn. This has been complicated by the party having gone somewhat off the rails after the funeral ship ambush.
Fundamentally, I think I failed to explain at the beginning of this part of the adventure that it's an investigation-themed portion of the adventure, and so they just haven't been putting together the clues that have been thrown at them. Possibly because I have "GM goggles" on, I think the clues are ridiculously obvious, but either they haven't been pieced together or I forgot to give them some.
As a result, the party has now arrived at Ravenscraeg and, despite trying to put (what I thought was) a pretty big clue literally right in their path, they seem to be rather surprised that (a) they were attacked upon arrival at the mountain fortress and (b) even more surprised that they're nearing the end of this part of the AP.
I would love some suggestions about how to pull things together in an organic fashion (rather than the cliched "You find a journal that explains it all.").
Here's the full story:
Instead, they started asking around for a new guide. I reiterated what they had learned before, that all the qualified guides were already on retainer to the major guilds. Undeterred, the party decided to try to approach a guild to hire a guide off of them, so, at risk of things going too far off the rails, I dropped the Rimerunners in front of them. They took the diplomatic route, and were told they would have to talk to the guildmaster, but they shouldn't expect a warm welcome. Nonetheless, some outstanding diplomacy rolls ingratiated the party to the guild factor, and he gave them the location of Ravenscraeg.
They returned to the caravan, where they were told Ameiko had disappeared while exploring the city and trying to find information on a new guide (which the party had asked her to do). One of the caravan drivers had been slipped a note by a dark-clothed figure, that explained if the party didn't turn back to Varisia, the "pretender" would be killed.
So, the party turned South (generally back in the direction of Varisia, right) but actually heading to Ravenscraeg. Trying to foreshadow things to come, I had them encounter an Incubus with some accompanying shadow mastiffs. (Behind the scenes, I decided the Incubus was sent by the Five Storms back in Minkai as a response to the second opening of the warding box, when it was used to resurrect the dead PC.) While the mastiffs surrounded the caravan, the Incubus opened with parlay. He said it was quite obvious the party was going to "rescue the pretender". (Nobody seemed to pickup on the suggestion that the pretender=Ameiko and Ameiko was being held at Ravenscraeg; I thought this was pretty obvious, but nobody in or out of character said anything about it.) The party managed to bribe the Incubus with the Dancing Wasp, it went away after suggesting they would meet again, and the party arrived at Ravenscraeg, where they were attacked by the tengu ninja. (And, despite being experienced players, some or all of the players have apparently decided the Incubus was summoned by Asvig's witch -- so, they're either so frustrated they're not thinking things through or I'm being too obscure in my clues and just making the players' more confused.)
We then ended the session with the party heading back down to the cliffbase to regroup with the caravan, heal and rest. When I explained it was fortuitous the party had brought the caravan, as they were nearing the end of this part of the AP and clearing the fortress may take several days, a number of them expressed shock, thinking they had encountered nothing but setbacks and hadn't made any progress in the AP at all.
Some of the issues I think I'll need to clarify:
2. Explaining the role of the Frozen Shadows in taking over the Rimerunners Guild.
3. Clarifying the connection between Asvig and the Rimerunners (they never realized the ship was leased from the guild).
4. Explaining the ambush on the funeral ship (how did the guild know they were going to be there, why were ninjas in place to attack, etc.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I feel your pain on this matter. My players also made it to Ravenscraeg with no clue that it was the enemy stronghold, and concluded early on that Asvig and his wife were the big villains of the adventure. Here's some suggestions, and notes on what I did to nudge them towards the truth of the situation:
First, one suggestion I have on the players not picking up on the "pretender" being Ameiko (which I think is an awesome way to phrase it, but if none of the players pick up on it, is troublesome) is to have an occasional character change up the wording. Maybe instead of just "the pretender" be a bit more direct, something like "your pretend empress". Key words "your" implying someone affiliated with the PCs and "empress" making it pretty obviously Ameiko by this point in the adventure.
Second, Lute Haggersly makes for an amazing source of info. He knows who Silverskorr, leader of the Rimerunners is, and suspects her of being an oni (and if your players have outright forgotten that it's oni they're dealing with perhaps give them a subtle reminder). He's also dealt with Goti Runecaster and thus could pretty easily tell the players of Wodes as well.
For the info on the Frozen Shadows and the Rimerunners guild, I'd suggest saving that for the end unless you really feel the need to reveal it earlier. Use it as material for some good-old villainous gloating during the battle with Kimandatsu.
And as for both Asvig and the ship ambush, I'd suggest leaving the revelation of that to Omoyani, Wodes, or maybe Jorgan. Have them either complain about their minions' failed attempts on the PCs, or commend the PCs for surviving the attacks. Cite Asvig, his raiders, and the ship ambush as examples even! Make it clear that they've had people shadowing the PCs throughout their time in Kalsgard, thus knowing when the PCs were going to be on the ship because they saw them go there.
Gluttony, for some reason I can't see your post in this thread, but I was able to read it off of your profile. Thanks. It's nice to know I/we are not alone in this predicament. I also appreciate the suggestions. In the wild and crazy hope the party allows for one or two villains' monologues (or for me to just throw in during combat), I'll try to work up some stuff in advance. And I'll definitely take some time thinking about Lute... I keep forgetting about him.
On Jorgan the Axe:
Did the party find Helgarval on the funeral ship? If not you could have him track them down and deliver some good old exposition (since that what he's in the module for). Lute as apparently mentioned (I can't see any posts in this thread other than your own either) is in Ravenscraeg and can inform the party of the link between the Frozen Shadows and the Rimerunners. They should also be able to find Ukshakka in the fortress as well, though not until the end. If you just want to go the route of exposition, then Helgarval and Lute are your best bet before they get too deep into Ravenscraeg.
A couple questions which might help me give some additional suggestions.
What have they done in regards to finding Suishen? Did they get any information out of Asvig at all? I assume they had to to know about the funeral ship (or did Ukshakka send them there as well?)
What do the PCs know about the frozen shadows and the links between the various NPCS (Asvig, Jorgan, Wodes, Ruti, Thorborg/Kimandatsu)? It sounds to me like they're not even aware that there is a sinister organisation put here by the the five storms to hinder the return of an Amatatsu heir. Who do they think is sending all these Ninja and the like after them?
BAsically it seems to be that the party isn't being paranoid enough :p With everything that's been done my party was way more suspicious. Impress upon your party that there is a powerful organisations of native outsiders who want to murder each and every one of them :p
Thanks Peanuts. They did find Helgevarl, and he told them the extent of his scripted knowledge. It would be difficult to have him suddenly remember more. But there is Lute, and one character does have an intelligent weapon that is slowly evolving as the character levels up... maybe I could use that for some exposition.
For Asvig, they killed him in the fight, but did capture and interrogate a couple of the guards who explained about Suishen, Snorri Stoneeye and the funeral ship. The party really seems to not be paying attention to Suishen, though, despite me mentioning it rather plainly several times as an "important goal" in Kalsgard.
I think they are wondering (or were wondering) who is sending all the ninja after them, but they stopped asking after they the first inquiries only revealed that some dark dressed people were asking about them.
They know about the Oni, courtesy of the Seal, but haven't put together the clues about the Frozen Shadows and Rimerunners guild. Part of that is simply because they didn't infiltrate the Guildhouse and never asked about the ship that carried the river-side raiders, but they also just haven't connected the "black feather" clues. Part of that may be adventure design, partly my fault (maybe I didn't present a clue properly), and partly our play schedule (may be hard to remember this stuff since we only play once every three weeks).
|
I'm surprised that they don't think Suishen is important. They had a vision of it, specifically, and at the end of the vision they know that Suishen was Rokuro's sword, and that it can give them information. If they knew that and don't remember, I'd remind them. That's a pretty major piece to be blowing off.
It sounds like the play schedule is making it hard for players to keep clues in mind, especially if they happened many months (real time) ago. I play in one investigation-heavy game where we often miss sessions due to scheduling, and we have instituted a "read aloud" of the notes, to mark the beginning of each session. That way, we know exactly where we ended, last time, and the GM tends to slip clues into the notes to make sure that we haven't ignored anything or forgotten anything (if the notes say, for example, "the party found a black feather, but did not think that it was important," four times, then we might start putting it together). This way, even if it has been two months of work and kids and parties and travel for us, we are reminded that it has just been a few minutes for our characters. This has the added bonus of making sure that there are notes to be read.
Have you talked to your players about it, to let them know that you can tell they're frustrated, but that they seem to be missing clues and leaving a lot of clues on the table? I bet that if one of them started taking notes, the way an investigator would, they will start to make connections.
Sounds like your guys don't want to think very deeply about what they are doing or have bad memories about things that happened before. The infodump about Suishen is especially very on the eye, IMO..
If they simply cannot be bothered to think for themselves, use the NPC's, who *also* shared the vision from Brinewall Castle, to impress upon your players how important Suishen is for the plot.
I wonder why they didn't trust Uksahkka.
Yeah it sounds like it's at least partially on your players for not piecing things together or paying enough attention. The large breaks between sessions never helps though. Encouraging them to take notes is a good idea.
Did they visit Fynn Snaevald? You haven't mentioned him at all. It would be somewhat difficult to bring him in now, but he could perhaps have heard of their investigations and offer some exposition about the Frozen Shadows.
The other avenue always available to you is to have Koya learn something in a harrow reading or some other sort of divination (visions from Desna, etc) to get a bit of info in that way, I've used that once or twice.
If your players are determined to be dense however, then there's not a whole lot you can do with out just coming out and spoiling things.
We are talking about it (my players and me). They expressed their surprise and frustration at the end of our last session, and I've asked them to spell out what it is they think they know and where they are confused.
I'm thinking at the beginning of our next session, I'll have Koya do a harrow card reading (great suggestion) to summarize the clues they've found and bring them together with some veiled reference to Kammandatsu (spelling, referring to the "boss" in this part of the AP). I'm also thinking their may be some gibbets outside the longhouse, containing some "loose ends" who failed in their jobs. Anything else I will hopefully be able to wrap up in the encounters with Jorgan, Wodes, Goti and Lute.
Thanks all; I hugely appreciate it!