Take a good look at the stealth rules -
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
What this means is that unless there is something to hide behind, you cannot use stealth. You cannot use stealth to cross any open space within site of someone unless you have HIPS. Stealth is way less effective then it used to be in older versions of D&D until you get to the point where you can have constant concealment, say though improved invis. Also, being stealthed does not grant an automatic coup de grace
Coup de Grace
As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace (pronounced "coo day grahs") to a helpless opponent.
opponents are not considered helpless against stealthed attackers
Stealth needs all the help it can get. What level are they? Stealth even for a focused group is not that great.
You can't coup de grace someone just because they can't see you. If that was the case rogues would just do that instead of bothering with sneak attack and invisibility potions would be more powerful.
Hmm...it seems badly worded. The way I interpret it, it means that you all make a roll, and each person adds THEIR OWN modifier to that roll. But it could be read as "take the highest roll, and add everybody's modifiers together and add to that for everybody"...which would be insane.
Each person should be adding their own modifiers to the highest D20 roll.
Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.
It is saying you(the individual character) take the highest d20 roll, and add your modifiers to it.
That's what I figured. But it could also be read as "add ALL YOUR modifiers" (the plural "your"). I was wondering if that's what the OP was doing...because even if the highest roll among you was a 20, to get Stealth checks in the 40-50 range means your total modifiers are +20 or +30...which is pretty darn high (though the OP doesn't say what level these characters are).
Frankly, if your Stealth mod is +30, you SHOULD be sneaking past most stuff, with or without Stealth Synergy. So why be surprised by that? Sound like the problem (if it is one) is of having high Stealth mods, not the feat.
Yep, sounds like the OPs players are adding all of the team's Stealth modifiers to the highest roll.
So, for example, there are 5 players, with Stealth mods of +5, +15, +7, +9 and +11. All of them roll, and get results of 3, 7, 12, 13 and 17.
The OPs players are summing the modifiers (to get +47) and adding that to the 17. What should be happening is that the players add the 17 to their individual Stealth modifier, so they get Stealth results of 22, 32, 24, 26 and 28.
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Each person should be adding their own modifiers to the highest D20 roll.
Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.It is saying you(the individual character) take the highest d20 roll, and add your modifiers to it.
Thou art incorrect. Forsooth, "your" is the possessive form of the second person plural pronoun "you." Thou shouldst take more heed when proclaiming on the pronunciation of the puissant tongue of the Plantagenet patriarch, may He perambulate in Paradise perpetually.
Thou art incorrect. Forsooth, "your" is the possessive form of the second person plural pronoun "you." Thou shouldst take more heed when proclaiming on the pronunciation of the puissant tongue of the Plantagenet patriarch, may He perambulate in Paradise perpetually.Each person should be adding their own modifiers to the highest D20 roll.
Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.It is saying you(the individual character) take the highest d20 roll, and add your modifiers to it.
For that I award you 20 points and one internets.
Take a good look at the stealth rules -
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth...What this means is that unless there is something to hide behind, you cannot use stealth. You cannot use stealth to cross any open space within site of someone unless you have HIPS...
Well, this high lights ONE of the problems of Stealth (and Perception) which are why Stealth/Perception really did need Errata, even if Paizo decided that putting their head in the sand was easier.
It's pretty easy to see that the first and second sentences of the rules quote don't actually correspond to each other 100%. Standard Concealment DOESN'T prevent line of sight, i.e. observation by sight, only Full Concealment (not mentioned by Stealth) and Cover does so. I don't really see any reasonable reading of RAW to square up the facts that standard Concealment is stated to enable Stealth vs. most creatures, and the previous sentence stating that any obsevation (most typically by sight) precludes Stealth - Standard creatures primarily depend on Sight in the first place.
I don't really see any reasonable reading of RAW to square up the facts that standard Concealment is stated to enable Stealth vs. most creatures, and the previous sentence stating that any obsevation (most typically by sight) precludes Stealth - Standard creatures primarily depend on Sight in the first place.
What it means is that if you have cover AND no one sees you YET you can start hiding. Once they see you mere cover is no longer sufficient.
Its like where's waldo. Finding him can be hard, but once you've seen him you can't unsee him, he'll jump out at you right away if you look at the picture again in a week.
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but the actual text uses equivalent phrases for both sentences: '...use Stealth'.
it doesn't say anything about initiating/beginning Stealth vs. continuing it,
nor anything about 'duration'of Stealth and conditions where it is prematurely ended.
that was exactly the key area that the Stealth Blog Playtest clarified, that the current RAW doesn't go into.
it basically comes down to the fact that the current Stealth RAW is badly broken when run per RAW...
...an assessment which the Paizo rules team apparently agrees with, albeit they were over-ruled based on other concerns, probably concerning the scope of changes which Paizo 'wants' to apply to the rules... personally, i can't go along with the logic that just because there is a problem so serious that it requires serious errata, means that such errata would shift from 'errata' to 'design change', but that's the way Paizo went.
Thou art incorrect. Forsooth, "your" is the possessive form of the second person plural pronoun "you." Thou shouldst take more heed when proclaiming on the pronunciation of the puissant tongue of the Plantagenet patriarch, may He perambulate in Paradise perpetually.Each person should be adding their own modifiers to the highest D20 roll.
Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.It is saying you(the individual character) take the highest d20 roll, and add your modifiers to it.
Your is sometimes single. "Get your things and get out of my house", is an example.
I am correct and I will continue to be correct.
proof:singular possessive.
your
[yoor, yawr, yohr; unstressed yer] Show IPA
pronoun
1.
(a form of the possessive case of you used as an attributive adjective): Your jacket is in that closet. I like your idea. Compare yours.
2.
one's (used to indicate that one belonging to oneself or to any person): The consulate is your best source of information. As you go down the hill, the library is on your left.
It seems I have taken as much heed as I need to take. :)
For that I award you 20 points and one internets.Thou art incorrect. Forsooth, "your" is the possessive form of the second person plural pronoun "you." Thou shouldst take more heed when proclaiming on the pronunciation of the puissant tongue of the Plantagenet patriarch, may He perambulate in Paradise perpetually.Each person should be adding their own modifiers to the highest D20 roll.
Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.It is saying you(the individual character) take the highest d20 roll, and add your modifiers to it.
I am taking her internets back. She did not earn it. :)
By the way Mabven James said he disagreed with you.
I haven't worked on any of the alchemist archetypes save for those that appear in Inner Sea Magic and the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
You would indeed provoke each time you fire your bow. Each attack is its own separate trigger for an AoO.
For that I award you 20 points and one internets.Thou art incorrect. Forsooth, "your" is the possessive form of the second person plural pronoun "you." Thou shouldst take more heed when proclaiming on the pronunciation of the puissant tongue of the Plantagenet patriarch, may He perambulate in Paradise perpetually.Each person should be adding their own modifiers to the highest D20 roll.
Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.It is saying you(the individual character) take the highest d20 roll, and add your modifiers to it.I am taking her internets back. She did not earn it. :)
By the way Mabven James said he disagreed with you.
I haven't worked on any of the alchemist archetypes save for those that appear in Inner Sea Magic and the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
You would indeed provoke each time you fire your bow. Each attack is its own separate trigger for an AoO.
Strangely enough, I was actually supporting your position by showing how the use of "you" as the plural of "thee" is archaic.
As far as JJ disagreeing with me (about a long-dead and unrelated thread), his statement does not disagree with me at all. I never felt that a full-attack should only provoke once, although I did concede that such might be a literal reading of RAW. My objection was to obviously abusive things like trip-chaining, or getting two aoo's on a single spell-cast.
Sorry about that. I really read it as you disagreeing and not being nice about it.
I had never seen anyone use middle english when they are not being sarcastic if they are correcting someone.
I will chalk it up to a misunderstanding.
lol, I was being sarcastic, but my sarcasm was directed at an imaginary person who had not yet posted, one who would go so far as to delve into middle-english usage to support his desire to be able to add all of his party-members' modifiers to his stealth roll. We all know this guy - he will twist any passage in the rules to fit his desires, and insist that his interpretation of RAW is the only possible reading, despite other, more obvious interpretations being available, interpretations which make more sense and seem to represent developer intentions much better.
lol, I was being sarcastic, but my sarcasm was directed at an imaginary person who had not yet posted, one who would go so far as to delve into middle-english usage to support his desire to be able to add all of his party-members' modifiers to his stealth roll. We all know this guy - he will twist any passage in the rules to fit his desires, and insist that his interpretation of RAW is the only possible reading, despite other, more obvious interpretations being available, interpretations which make more sense and seem to represent developer intentions much better.
Ravingdork?
lol, I was being sarcastic, but my sarcasm was directed at an imaginary person who had not yet posted, one who would go so far as to delve into middle-english usage to support his desire to be able to add all of his party-members' modifiers to his stealth roll. We all know this guy - he will twist any passage in the rules to fit his desires, and insist that his interpretation of RAW is the only possible reading, despite other, more obvious interpretations being available, interpretations which make more sense and seem to represent developer intentions much better.Ravingdork?
** spoiler omitted **
Many of us are this guy on one thread or another, myself included. See how Wraithstrike thought I was being serious? This whole thing wouldn't have made me laugh half as hard if he had not. It's not truly comedy if you don't take a little dig at yourself.
Many of us are this guy on one thread or another, myself included. See how Wraithstrike thought I was being serious? This whole thing wouldn't have made me laugh half as hard if he had not. It's not truly comedy if you don't take a little dig at yourself.lol, I was being sarcastic, but my sarcasm was directed at an imaginary person who had not yet posted, one who would go so far as to delve into middle-english usage to support his desire to be able to add all of his party-members' modifiers to his stealth roll. We all know this guy - he will twist any passage in the rules to fit his desires, and insist that his interpretation of RAW is the only possible reading, despite other, more obvious interpretations being available, interpretations which make more sense and seem to represent developer intentions much better.Ravingdork?
** spoiler omitted **
Very true.
Rules text should be written in middle English. The distinction between second person singular and second person plural would remove some ambiguities. In theory Latin would be better, but most gamers can work out middle English with spelling modernization a lot better than they can read latin.
Either that, or rules should use "y'all" as the plural, and leave "you" as the singular. :)
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What? What is it? Huh. I thought I heard my name. *walks out*
I agree, this does get too strong if you apply all the modifiers (or even if you let everyone use the highest modifier of the group), but that not how the feat works.