Hey everyone,
So my girlfriend wants to play a game with my usual lot and she's said she'd like a class who can melee attack as well as she can cast spells and she'd like to be sneaky and gain a familiar (most likely a cat).
So, I pointed her in the direction of a Magus.
Anyway, Stealth and Acrobatics was a major aspect of her character idea, but she also really loves the Blade Bound Magus archetype, so I decided I'd go with a Magus Blade Bound, mixed with either a Rogue Scout or Rogue Roof Runner. The campaign will be Rise of the Runelords (which I'll be running).
Anyway, my idea was to go with 5 levels of Rogue and 12 levels of Magus (assuming it will end at around level 17, like most AP's).
However, I'm having a little trouble working things out (I'm more used to Fighter Classes, so a Magus' Caster Level is confusing me). For example, with 12 levels of Magus, you only get up to 4th level spells, but if I were to choose the Magical Knack trait for her, would that not essentially allow her to cast 5th level spells, as it increases my Caster Level by 2?
The stats are as follows:
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Wis: 12
Int: 16
Cha: 8
Race: Elf
HP: 10 (1 from Favoured Class, 1 from Con)
AC: 17 (3 from Dex, 4 from Chain Shirt)
Level: 1
Abilities: Low light vision, Keen Sense, Sleep Effect Immunity, +2 vs Enchantments, +2 on CL vs Spell Resistance, +2 Spellcraft on identifying Magic Items.
Languages: Common, Celestial, Draconic, Orc and Sylvan.
Rogue Archetypes:
Scout's Charge (Ex): At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Roof Running (Ex): At 1st level, a roof runner becomes entirely adept at moving across the tops of buildings, spires, and similar locations. Provided she is wearing light armor, the roof runner can move at full speed while traveling across the tops of buildings or similar structures, and takes no penalties on any Dexterity-based Skill checks or Reflex saves that might be incurred from moving about on a roof. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Tumbling Descent (Ex): At 2nd level, a roof runner can use her acrobatics skill to attempt a rapid descent from a rooftop or another surface, ricocheting against another surface and then diving through an opening (such as a balcony or window) directly below. So long as she has at least two surfaces no farther than 10 feet apart to bounce against, she can ricochet her body back from one to the next, descending great distances with a single check. The DC is 10 + 5 for every additional 10-foot increment descended beyond the initial 10 feet dropped. If she fails, she falls the full distance.
This ability replaces trap sense.
Magus Archetype:
Black Blades
A black blade is a particular form of intelligent weapon gained by a magus with the bladebound archetype. There are several ways a magus might gain this weapon. Sometimes it just appears among the magus's possessions, and its origin is a mystery. Other times the magus finds a black blade during an adventure or event of some kind. Sometimes a black blade is passed down generation to generation in an ongoing search for a magus who can unlock its true potential.
A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane. The magus chooses the blade's type upon gaining the blade, and once chosen, it can't be changed. As a bladebound magus increases in level, his black blade gains power. A black blade is independently conscious but features some personality traits reflecting its wielder. A black blade always has the same alignment as its wielder and even changes its alignment if its wielder does.
The blade typically works toward its wielder's goals, but not always without argument or backlash. Each black blade has a mission, and while sometimes two or more black blades will work in concert, each mission is singular in purpose (the black blade's mission is usually up to the GM and the needs of the campaign or the adventure, or a GM can roll randomly for the weapon's purpose using the Intelligent Item Purpose table. Some black blades are very open about their missions, but most are secretive. Certain sages have speculated that an invisible hand or arcane purpose moves these weapons.
Table: Black Blade Progression
Magus Class Level Enhancement Bonus Int Wis/Cha Ego Special
3rd–4th +1 11 7 5 Alertness, black blade strike, telepathy, unbreakable
5th–6th +2 12 8 8 Energy attunement
7th–8th +2 13 9 10 —
9th–10th +3 14 10 12 Teleport blade
11th–12th +3 15 11 14 —
13th–14th +4 16 12 16 Transfer arcana
15th–16th +4 17 13 18 —
17th–18th +5 18 14 22 Spell defense
19th–20th +5 19 15 24 Life drinker
Black Blade (Ex): At 3rd level, the bladebound magus' gains a powerful sentient weapon called a black blade, whose weapon type is chosen by the magus. A magus with this class feature cannot take the familiar magus arcana, and cannot have a familiar of any kind, even from another class.
Instead of the normal arcane pool amount, the bladebound magus's arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/3 his level (minimum 1) plus his Intelligence bonus. This ability changes the Arcane Pool class feature and replaces the magus arcana gained at 3rd level.
Magus Arcana: The following magus arcana complement the bladebound magus archetype: arcane accuracy, broad study, dispelling strike, and reflection.
Black Blade Basics: A black blade is bonded to a particular magus, much like a familiar, but in more of a partnership than a master-servant relationship.
Intelligence: This is the intelligence score of the black blade. It starts at 10 and increases by 1 for every two levels of the bladebound magus (at 3rd level, 5th level, and so on).
Wisdom and Charisma: As the bladebound magus increases in level, so do the Wisdom and Charisma of the black blade. These abilities start at 6 and increase by 1 for every two levels of magus.
Ego: A black blade starts with an ego of 5, and that ego increases as the blade becomes more powerful. In cases where a wielder and the black blade come into conflict, like any intelligent item, a black blade can attempt to exert its dominance using the items against characters rules. Due to its flexible and powerful nature, a black blade has a nonstandard ego progression.
Languages and Skills: A black blade starts with Common as a language. As the black blade increases in Intelligence, it manifests knowledge of languages and arcane lore. Upon reaching an Intelligence of 12, it gains a bonus language of the GM's choice, and gains 1 rank in Knowledge (arcana). Each time the sword gains a bonus to Intelligence, it gains another language and another rank in Knowledge (arcana).
Senses: A black blade is aware of everything around it like a creature that can see and hear. It can be blinded and deafened as if it were a creature. It uses the saving throws of its magus, even if the magus is not currently wielding the black blade.
Black Blade Arcane Pool: A black blade has an arcane pool with a number of points equal to 1 + its Intelligence bonus.
Black Blade Ability Descriptions: A black blade has special abilities (or imparts abilities to its wielder) depending on the wielder's magus level. The abilities are cumulative. A black blade normally refuses to use any of its abilities when wielded by anyone other than its magus, and acts as a masterwork weapon of its type.
Alertness (Ex): While a magus is wielding his black blade, he gains the Alertness feat.
Black Blade Strike (Sp): As a free action, the magus can spend a point from the black blade's arcane pool to grant the black blade a +1 bonus on damage rolls for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, this ability gives the black blade another +1 on damage rolls.
Telepathy (Su): While a magus is wielding or carrying his black blade, he can communicate telepathically with the blade in a language that the magus and the black blade share.
Unbreakable (Ex): As long as it has at least 1 point in its arcane pool, a black blade is immune to the broken condition.
If broken, the black blade is unconscious and powerless until repaired. If destroyed, the black blade can be reforged 1 week later through a special ritual that costs 200 gp per magus level. The ritual takes 24 hours to complete.
Energy Attunement (Su): At 5th level, as a free action, a magus can spend a point of his black blade's arcane pool to have it deal one of the following types of damage instead of weapon damage: cold, electricity, or fire. He can spend 2 points from the black blade's arcane pool to deal sonic or force damage instead of weapon damage. This effect lasts until the start of the magus's next turn.
Teleport Blade (Sp): As a standard action, a magus of 9th level or higher can expend an arcane point from his or his black blade's arcane pool, and can call his black blade from as far as 1 mile away, causing it to instantaneously teleport to his hand.
Transfer Arcana (Su): At 13th level, once per day, a magus can attempt to siphon points from his black blade's arcane pool into his own arcane pool. Doing so takes a full-round action and the magus must succeed at a Will saving throw with a DC equal to the black blade's ego. If the magus succeeds, he regains 1 point to his arcane pool for every 2 points he saps from his black blade. If he fails the saving throw, the magus becomes fatigued (but can try again). If he is fatigued, he becomes exhausted instead. He cannot use this ability if he is exhausted.
Skills:
Acrobatics: 7
Bluff: 3
Climb: 6
Disable Device: 7
Escape Artist: 7
Knowledge Arcana: 4 (7 when Magus)
Perception: 5
Sense Motive: 5
Spellcraft: 4 (7 when Magus)
Stealth: 10
Swim: 6
Magical Knack
I'll replace Magical Knack with Warrior of Old for +2 Initiative if it doesn't allow for me to cast 5th level spells
Feat - Skill Focus: Stealth
Feat - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
2. Magus - Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat
3. Magus - Spellstrike
Feat -
4. Magus -
5. Rogue - Evasion, Rogue Talent
Feat - Magus Arcana: Familiar
6. Magus - Spell Recall
7. Magus - Bonus Feat
Feat -
Feat - Skill Focus: Acrobatics
8. Magus - Magus Arcana
9. Rogue - Sneak Attack 2d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent
10. Magus - Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor
11. Magus - Improved Spell Combat
Feat -
12. Magus - Magus Arcana
13. Rogue - Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent
14. Magus - Fighter Training
15. Magus - Bonus Feat, Improved Spell Recall
Feat -
Feat -
16. Magus - Magus Arcana
17. Rogue - Sneak Attack 3d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent
Note: I'm giving everyone an extra feat at level 1 to make up for the fact most campaigns end at level 17, not 20. Just one little house rule I've made for this session. :)
Any hints, tips and pointers on this build would be greatly appreciated, along with answers to how Magical Knack would work for me with this build.
Thanks very much for all of the help!!!
Have you considered an Urban Guide Ranger 2/ Magus X? This will give her the stealth skills whilst still maintaining good BAB, extra feat, and not overly limiting the Magus' power too much (like five levels of rogue would).
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Hey now, no bastard swords. If you her to blend well with rogue, she will need Dexterity. The best route for that is to have a scimitar with Dervish Dancer. Also, Combat Expertise is not the best feat, you will probably really need that to-hit, take dodge instead. Take advantage of your wide skill range and put some into Dance, and take Weapon Finesse instead.
Not sure if you want to open the can of worms that is homebrew, but this was something I threw together awhile ago that might help. It replaces spellstrike and a few other things for some rogue abilities. It might have some issues at level 10+ when they can Greater Invis and then sneak attack, but the vivisectionist alchemist can do that much better anyways. Oh yea, change the name too. It's a stupid name if you use it.
But as for advice: She won't actually meet the prerequisites for EWP at first level, as you need BAB +1 for that.
Weapon Focus would be a good fit for her. Helps offset the two levels of +0 BAB.
If you her to blend well with rogue, she will need Dexterity.
That's very much not true. There's nothing about the rogue that requires dexterity, that's just how everyone who can't imagine anything else plays it. I've made many strength based rogues, and they work just fine, and perhaps even better than the dex based rogue.
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There is absolutely no reason to take anything other than straight Magus and get everything your GF needs/wants.
Rogue-like usually means sneak and talented with disable device.
Magus doesn't have those two skills as class skills but you can easily pick up Stealth as a class skill with the Highlander trait (+1 stealth and makes it a class skill) and Disable Device by playing a half-elf and putting your Skill Focus there (same thing as making it a class skill).
(The recommendation however is to put your skill focus on perception so you can find the trap and use a spell to disable it).
The advantage of playing a caster (especially a prepared caster like a magus) and a few ranks in UMD is you have ultimate flexibility (scrolls/wands) to handle anything that pops up with a little planning.
Keep a dozen utility scrolls on you for locks, traps, social encounters, etc and keep all your regular spell slots for combat and escape and every rogue you meet will be jealous of your awesomeness.
However, I'm having a little trouble working things out (I'm more used to Fighter Classes, so a Magus' Caster Level is confusing me). For example, with 12 levels of Magus, you only get up to 4th level spells, but if I were to choose the Magical Knack trait for her, would that not essentially allow her to cast 5th level spells, as it increases my Caster Level by 2?
"Caster Level" is a very specific thing. I applies when casting spells, for example, increasing the damage of a fireball, the duration of shield, or concentration checks. It does not increase your spells per day or spells known. Basically, you do the actual casting as a higher level character (for level dependent effects of the spells themselves), but you aren't one for things tied to class level, like spells per day, spells known, school powers, or anything else.
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I'm going to agree with Mathwei: go full Magus. You'll have access to plenty of spells to simulate rogue stuff, and you'll have plenty of skill points to be rogue-like.
Losing Acrobatics as a class skill isn't a huge issue because you can still definitely put points into it; Stealth, as Mathwei mentions, is available with traits.
"Caster Level" is a very specific thing. I applies when casting spells, for example, increasing the damage of a fireball, the duration of shield, or concentration checks. It does not increase your spells per day or spells known. Basically, you do the actual casting as a higher level character (for level dependent effects of the spells themselves), but you aren't one for things tied to class level, like spells per day, spells known, school powers, or anything else.
Ah right, so although it wouldn't allow access to 5th and 6th level spells, it would still apply to say Shocking Grasp. Would I still be able to get Shocking Grasp to reach the 5d6 mark?
With my workings out, this build will majorly suck in combat early on, but get better over time, so I was thinking the max damage this Magus could do per attack would be:
Shocking Grasp 5d6 + 5d6 (for Intensified Spell) + 3d6 Sneak + 1d10 + 2 + 1d10 + 2 (Spellstrike with Spell Combat let's you do this), so per attack, that would be a maximum of 102 damage without magic weapons. By that point the Magus Rogue would have 3 attacks to deal a possible 306 damage.
As for spells and sticking with straight Magus; The problem I had was a Magus is already a complicated class for someone who's just beginning, so I didn't want to bog her down by making her cast spells to have all of these abilities come into effect, so I figured the best way was to do it all via the Rogues skills and that also gave sneak attack (with a Bastard Sword...).
I completely forgot about the BAB 1 requirement for Weapon Proficiency. Maybe heirloom weapon can get around that, but if not I guess she'll have to carry it around with her and then start using it when she hits BAB 1.
She really loves the idea of being able to climb roofs, free run and still get sneak attacks with charges. On top of this, she also really likes the idea of a living weapon and doesn't find sticking to one class a very exciting concept.
I'm used to multi-classing now, as I do it a lot myself, so I'm impressed I managed to get anything like this working. I just think the Attack Bonus will mostly suck until stat increasing items and +1 upwards weapons can be bought.
If she's Blade Bound, she won't need to purchase magic weapons. The blackblade is enough. This frees up some cash for stat boosting items, or whatever else she wants. IF she goes half elf, she can get the EWP from Ancestral Arms. Half Elf Adaptability will also help since she's multi-classing. I'd start with Magus at first level and alternate until she reaches Magus 4/Rogue 4, then stick with Magus. Unless she wants the extra SA d6, which isn't a bad idea.
Anyway, that's my 2cp
If she's Blade Bound, she won't need to purchase magic weapons. The blackblade is enough. This frees up some cash for stat boosting items, or whatever else she wants. IF she goes half elf, she can get the EWP from Ancestral Arms. Half Elf Adaptability will also help since she's multi-classing. I'd start with Magus at first level and alternate until she reaches Magus 4/Rogue 4, then stick with Magus. Unless she wants the extra SA d6, which isn't a bad idea.
Anyway, that's my 2cp
Well, that's the problem. I've been trying to find a way to get her a Bastard Sword as her Blade Bound weapon, but her weapon won't activate until she takes that first Magus level and starting out as a Rogue seemed the best option because of all of the skills she'd get at 1st level.
I prefer Half-elves, but with the bonus to Dex and Int, it just seemed to make sense having this build as a flat out Elf.
My GM told me I should get her to alternate between Rogue and Magus every level, but that would have made the Magus very very pathetic, so I opted to go Rogue 5 levels for 3d6 sneak and all of the wonderful skills, then Magus 12 because I figured that'd be a good mix of the two classes.
It's a shame about the lack of a multitalented skill, but you've always gotta give something up to get something back in return. It seems to balance things quite well. Just a shame the Magus doesn't get the same BAB as a Fighter. :(
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If she's Blade Bound, she won't need to purchase magic weapons. The blackblade is enough. This frees up some cash for stat boosting items, or whatever else she wants. IF she goes half elf, she can get the EWP from Ancestral Arms. Half Elf Adaptability will also help since she's multi-classing. I'd start with Magus at first level and alternate until she reaches Magus 4/Rogue 4, then stick with Magus. Unless she wants the extra SA d6, which isn't a bad idea.
Anyway, that's my 2cp
Ancestral Arms doesn't allow you to ignore prerequisites. A half-elf rogue or magus would only be able to take Martial Weapon Proficiency.
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Inquisitor can get all the things listed.
Choose one of the animal/terrain domains to grant a familiar, and go Heretic Inquisitor.
Sneaky, good at melee, spellcasting, familiar.
Choose Irori as a god, and you will gain improved unarmed strike. Choose wisdom of the flesh trait and use wisdom for acrobatics.
You now have wisdom to stealth and acrobatics.
Not to rain on any parades, but if she takes the bladebound archetype, she will never be able to have the cat familiar she wanted.
"A magus with this class feature cannot take the familiar magus arcana, and cannot have a familiar of any kind, even from another class"
Hmm, then I guess I'll just allow her to have a pet that aids her in no way at all. At least she could still have some kind of animal going around with her then.
This was what I read originally, so thought it was ok:
"This ability changes the Arcane Pool class feature and replaces the magus arcana gained at 3rd level."
Seems I missed what you pointed out. Makes sense though (in a way), because otherwise you'd technically have two Familiars.
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I would suggest going straight Magus as well, you'll trade some cool Rogue gimmicks for extra magic, but with spells like invisibility, you'll be pretty sneaky regardless.
Barring that, Sneak Attack + Spellstrike is bound to make some heads roll.
Doesn't rule out an animal companion, though! As long as she's multiclassing, she can pick a ranger (stealthy) and have a cat that might be a bit bigger than she was initially picturing.
I don't know if you use 3rd party materials, but Open Design has the spell-less ranger alternate ranger class. It has an archetype that gives them an animal companion at 3rd level that is equal to druid level rather than ranger -3. I highly recommend checking it out.
The Boon Companion feat would help boost the cat so it's not as weak, since she's going to mainly be a magus.
Leadership and an awakened cat works.
Or that. Good one.
I would suggest going straight Magus as well, you'll trade some cool Rogue gimmicks for extra magic, but with spells like invisibility, you'll be pretty sneaky regardless.
Barring that, Sneak Attack + Spellstrike is bound to make some heads roll.
That was the plan. :p
I actually asked her if she wanted to be able to go invisible as it'd make things easier where Stealth is concerned, but she didn't want to. She liked the idea of playing a character who was stealthy enough to not need invisibility, so it'll make things harder for her, but it's down to her and at level 17, a plus 19 to hit can still be okay...just maybe not against Bosses.
She'd have +9 to hit from the Magus and +3 to hit from the Rogue. Add to that her Strength of +2, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Masterwork Weapon, +3 Weapon and you have +19.
Failing that, she could always cast True Strike whilst flanking to get all of her damage off. Ouch!
@Pseudo and Blackblood - Thanks guys. They're good options, though I think she's really taken to being able to deal Sneak Attack damage, so I don't think a Ranger would be ideal.
If she wants to take Leadership and Awaken an animal, I'll let her though. Ah, I'll have to talk to her about it and see what she says anyway.
That's okay. It's just good to have people like you helping or pointing out faults in my build, because then I know what to fix and with suggestions like your Inquisitor, it may make me give the Class a try in the future sometime myself. ;)
Yea, I told her about the Scout and Roof Runner Rogue Archetypes and she loved the look and idea of a Magus and felt the Bladebound was a really cool concept. I don't really know if a Vanilla Magus would be better or not, but the damage output looks pretty nice once she can actually start hitting things better.
I might just say to her that it'll be easier to get a Longsword though, just because if she didn't want another weapon, she'd have to wait until level 3 before she could do anything and thematically, I don't think it'd make too much sense for her to have two weapons on her.
I mean her characters back story is that her 15 year old elf's father was brutally murdered by Goblins, and the last thing he got from his father was a long looked after Bastard Sword that he now lugs around everywhere, in hope that one day he'll find the Goblins responsible and end their lives in return. Now, alternating between living on the street and in the wild, he's run low on supplies, so ventures into Sandpoint during the festival in search of fresh food and water, which is where the adventure will begin.
I said to her that she could just carry the sword until it activates suddenly (as soon as she takes one level of Magus) and shows its true power. As a GM I'm tempted to say she could have it without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency due to it being a major aspect of her Class, but that'd be unfair on the other players, so I'll think of something.
Hmm, I guess just with the penalty for not having Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword.
Well, I've updated her Feat Tree, so hopefully this will be relatively okay now:
Feat - Skill Focus: Stealth
2. Magus - Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat
3. Magus - Spellstrike
Feat - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
4. Magus - Black Blade
5. Rogue - Evasion, Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
Feat - Skill Focus: Acrobatics
6. Magus - Spell Recall
7. Magus - Bonus Feat
Feat - Intensified Spell: Shocking Grasp
Feat - Critical Focus
8. Magus - Magus Arcana
9. Rogue - Sneak Attack 2d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent
10. Magus - Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor
11. Magus - Improved Spell Combat
Feat - Lightning Reflexes
12. Magus - Magus Arcana
13. Rogue - Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent
14. Magus - Fighter Training
15. Magus - Bonus Feat, Improved Spell Recall
Feat - Great Fortitude
Feat - Weapon Specialisation
16. Magus - Magus Arcana
17. Rogue - Sneak Attack 3d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent
Yea, everything in the first post (race and class wise) is set in stone.
Race: Elf
Class: Rogue - Roof Runner/Scout, Magus - Bladebound
HP: 10
AC: 17
Level: 1
Str: 14 +2
Dex: 16 +3
Con: 12 +1
Wis: 12 +1
Int: 16 +3
Cha: 8 -1
BAB: 0
CMB: 2
CMD: 15
Initiative: 5
Attack Bonus: 2
Ranged Attack Bonus: 3
Favoured Class: Magus - 1hp per level
Traits:
Magical Lineage - Shocking Grasp
Warrior of Old
Acrobatics: 7
Bluff: 3
Climb: 6
Disable Device: 7
Escape Artist: 7
Knowledge Arcana: 4 (7 when Magus)
Perception: 5
Sense Motive: 5
Spellcraft: 4 (7 when Magus)
Stealth: 10
Swim: 6
Feats:
1. Rogue - Sneak Attack 1d6, Roof Running (Ex)
Feat - Skill Focus: Stealth
2. Magus - Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat
3. Magus - Spellstrike
Feat - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
4. Magus - Black Blade
5. Rogue - Evasion, Tumbling Descent (Ex), Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
Feat - Skill Focus: Acrobatics
6. Magus - Spell Recall
7. Magus - Bonus Feat
Feat - Intensified Spell: Shocking Grasp
Feat - Extra Magus Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
8. Magus - Magus Arcana: Arcane Cloak
9. Rogue - Sneak Attack 2d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth
10. Magus - Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor
11. Magus - Improved Spell Combat
Feat - Lightning Reflexes
12. Magus - Magus Arcana: Ghost Blade
13. Rogue - Scout's Charge (Ex), Rogue Talent: Expert Leaper
Feat - Critical Focus
14. Magus - Fighter Training
15. Magus - Bonus Feat, Improved Spell Recall
Feat - Extra Magus Arcana: Accurate Strike
Feat - Weapon Specialisation
16. Magus - Magus Arcana: Devoted Blade
17. Rogue - Sneak Attack 3d6
Feat - Extra Rogue Talent: Nimble Climber
Hopefully that's now relatively decent, though it's a shame Nimble Climber is achieved so much later.
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I might be a little bit late in throwing this out there, but I'm fairly certain the Bladebound and Kensei magus archetypes stack, and Kensei gives you a free exotic weapon proficiency at first level.
A Kensei magus gives up a fair bit of the spellcasting though, so it might not be the best fit in that regard. Still, the more martial aspect does work nicely if what you want to do is swing a bastard sword around.
Hmm, I was about to say "So it does", but I don't really know because it replaces different things to that of the Bladebound, but I didn't think two Archetypes could share the same levels?
However, it only really truly comes into effect from level 13 onwards and this Magus build I've made only goes up to level 12.
I guess if they don't replace the same thing, they really do stack? If so, that's awesome. I just read up on the abilities and yes it sacrifices Magus Arcana and a Spell Slot of each level, but it's worth it for what it gives you!
"Caster Level" is a very specific thing. I applies when casting spells, for example, increasing the damage of a fireball, the duration of shield, or concentration checks. It does not increase your spells per day or spells known. Basically, you do the actual casting as a higher level character (for level dependent effects of the spells themselves), but you aren't one for things tied to class level, like spells per day, spells known, school powers, or anything else.Ah right, so although it wouldn't allow access to 5th and 6th level spells, it would still apply to say Shocking Grasp. Would I still be able to get Shocking Grasp to reach the 5d6 mark?
With my workings out, this build will majorly suck in combat early on, but get better over time, so I was thinking the max damage this Magus could do per attack would be:
Shocking Grasp 5d6 + 5d6 (for Intensified Spell) + 3d6 Sneak + 1d10 + 2 + 1d10 + 2 (Spellstrike with Spell Combat let's you do this), so per attack, that would be a maximum of 102 damage without magic weapons. By that point the Magus Rogue would have 3 attacks to deal a possible 306 damage.
As for spells and sticking with straight Magus; The problem I had was a Magus is already a complicated class for someone who's just beginning, so I didn't want to bog her down by making her cast spells to have all of these abilities come into effect, so I figured the best way was to do it all via the Rogues skills and that also gave sneak attack (with a Bastard Sword...).
* Note that you do not get to use shocking grasp 3 times in a single round so the damage would not be close to the number you mention.
* If you want to have a sneaky character consider going ninja instead of rogue, ki is very useful, so idealy it will require a bit of charisma, you can gain more ki for a rogue talent and/or a feat.
* Have you considered the sandman bard archetype (APG) ? it can be sneaky, has some sneak attack, and cast spells while avoiding multi-classing which makes the character a bit less complicated, dervish dancer might not be bad either.
* I see no real reason to multi-class rogue as a magus, you can get some of the class skills with traits or simulate it with a skill focus or alertness feat.
* spire defender archetype for magus is not a bad option for a dexterity based magus, it can be combined with bladebound magus, depending on what kind of armor you will eventually will be wearing you trade in armor proficiency for dodge and combat expertise, which is more beneficial if you decide to multi-class. Also you trade in spell recall for the ability to boost some useful skills like acrobatics, stealth and perception for a little while, and gain an exotic weapon proficiency as a bonus provided it has the disarm or trip feature.
* Note that you do not get to use shocking grasp 3 times in a single round so the damage would not be close to the number you mention.
Hey Remco,
That damage is just from one Spellstruck Shocking Grasp. The damage would be 5d6 and Intensified Spell adds another 5d6 on top of it, making the 10d6. :)
As for the rest of it, it seems as though Kensai does stack with Bladebound. The only downer to it is the fact it replaces Spell Recall, but with what it gets rid of, it more than makes up for in Bonus Feats and Damage.
I think I'm pretty much done with the build where Archetypes and Classes are concerned as I've spent far too much time on the thing, but I may add Kensai into the mix, just because of how awesome it seems and as for Armour, I think it'll be light armour all the way until Mithril Breatplate can be made....then it'll still be light armour, just better light armour. :)
I went through all of that months back, when I was making my first Magus. :p
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz543p&page=1?A-possibly-useless-Magus
Edit: Oops, I think I know what you meant now.
See, I'm thinking with every 5 BAB's you get a new attack, but you still only get one spell each turn, even with three attacks. I'm guessing that's how it works now, because spells cast a standard action with each use, where as I'm assuming three attacks with a sword only cost one standard action overall.
Is that right?
I think that really if your class states you have three attacks, you should really be able to cast your spells and attacks that many times, but I guess it doesn't work like that and that's where wishful thinking comes in.
So instead, at level 17 it would be:
Spell Combat - Spellstrike, Full Round Attack (so, attack, attack, attack with sword only).
Damage output would be: 10d6 + 3d6 +3d10 +6 = 114 Max Per Round, which I guess isn't bad, because that's assuming there are no mods to Strength or the Weapon.
Ancestral Arms doesn't allow you to ignore prerequisites. A half-elf rogue or magus would only be able to take Martial Weapon Proficiency.If she's Blade Bound, she won't need to purchase magic weapons. The blackblade is enough. This frees up some cash for stat boosting items, or whatever else she wants. IF she goes half elf, she can get the EWP from Ancestral Arms. Half Elf Adaptability will also help since she's multi-classing. I'd start with Magus at first level and alternate until she reaches Magus 4/Rogue 4, then stick with Magus. Unless she wants the extra SA d6, which isn't a bad idea.
Anyway, that's my 2cp
Actually, it does. From the PRD:
Ancestral Arms: Some half-elves receive training in an unusual weapon. Half-elves with this racial trait receive Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Martial Weapon Proficiency with one weapon as a bonus feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces the adaptability racial trait.
It straight up says you receive the EWP. Not that you treat all weapons with the word Elven in it's name as a martial weapon proficiency. That's Weapon Familiarity from the elf racial traits. There are plenty of incidences where a character can receive a feat without meeting the prereqs.
Bandavaar, when I said alternate classes, magus then rogue, I meant until rogue level 4 (or five for the 3d6 SA damage). The go Magus the rest of the way. You're not losing out on that many skill points in the long run. It sounds far better to me to put off a few skill points to get Magus spells and the black blade at 3rd level (character level 5, if you were alternating). Obviously, you have it figured out pretty well well what your girlfriend wants to do, and it looks solid. I'm just stating how I would do it. Again, my 2 cp, and of course YMMV.
Edit: Kensai and Bladebound do stack, and they are wicked together. You'll lose out on spells, especially since your GF's Magus is multi-classing, but since that's only a part of the concept, I'd also say it's worth it. I'd also have to agree with Remco about the ninja. If said Magus was a Bladebound Kensai AND a Ninja, there is the potential for some cool Tien based backstory. If that floats your boat.
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Hmm, I was about to say "So it does", but I don't really know because it replaces different things to that of the Bladebound, but I didn't think two Archetypes could share the same levels?
However, it only really truly comes into effect from level 13 onwards and this Magus build I've made only goes up to level 12.
I guess if they don't replace the same thing, they really do stack? If so, that's awesome. I just read up on the abilities and yes it sacrifices Magus Arcana and a Spell Slot of each level, but it's worth it for what it gives you!
Yepp, as long as they don't conflict in what they replace it's all legal. Kensei and Bladebound actually go together pretty well in terms of flavour, and in terms of the feats, proficiencies and abilities it gives you it seems to fit in pretty well with what you want here.
Just remember that Kensei does have diminished spellcasting as well as losing spell recall, so it's not all perfect. But fun. Definitely fun.
@The Eel - Thanks for the info, bud!
I'll check it over in the morning. Bladebound and Kensai do both look incredibly awesome together and seeing as Kensai is all about adding the Intelligence Bonus onto damage rolls etc, I'd say that makes up for the shoddy Attack Bonus. If it hits, it'll hit hard!
I know you're not telling me what to do, only suggesting what you think's best for the character and concept, but the thing is, in our group, for whatever reason we never seem to get far through the campaigns before being wiped out three times over and ending it indefinitely.
I don't usually GM, but because my GM always does it, I wanted to run a game for him to play for a change. I'll probably ask him for some pointers as I'm solely a player, but I know a decent amount of the rules now (naturally overlooking some things without realising, but that can't always be helped, haha), so I've planned the build in such a way that she can take advantage both the Rogue and Magus abilities hopefully before the whole group dies!
The highest level any of us have reached in Pathfinder is level 6. We've tried having normal Vanilla characters, Archetypes (not as many as above, mind), min-maxed characters and still had no luck. We're not a group of optimisers, though I've been rapidly getting better at making builds (multi-classed and singular classed), so I'm hoping this build will at least save my girlfriend's character for a while.
I'd like to run Rise of the Runelords long enough to at least reach book 3, because that would be a milestone in gaming history for us, but at the same time I like to edit bosses sometimes, so I make them more to the theme I feel they're trying to follow and sometimes that powers them up slightly. My usual GM doesn't though, so I'm not sure why everybody is doomed at around level 2 or 3....maybe because the group in general dislike Clerics.
@Flynn - Yeaaaa, you lose 1 spell per spell level and don't get to recall your spells, but you still get enough spells to power yourself up noticeably, giving you a unique identity, but where you lose spells, you also gain damage and some other nice feats and abilities.
4 Archetypes in one Dual Classed build is pretty heavy, but it's certainly going to be unique and that's what she really wanted to go for.
I keep talking as if this was my character (kind of wish it was, as it'd be fun to play, but maybe I'll make myself the Ninja Magus instead for myself, at some point in the future). :)