does the monk run speed increase count as normal land speed?

[Everstrange]

I'm trying to figure out if a level 17 monk which gets an increase of +40 ft for a total of 70 ft stack with the run feat.

does the "normal land speed" count as the base land speed? or does the combined 70ft count as the normal?

[Everstrange]

Also, some sources would be great. Just so I have something to show the DM

[Gauss]

CRB p59 wrote:

Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his base speed, as shown on Table 3–10. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

CRB p180 talks about speed. The book on p180 doesn't use the term 'base speed' since the base speed is modified by things like encumbrance and armor.

Key phrase there is Base speed. Thus, (combined with p180) since a person can move their base speed (assuming no reductions in speed from encumbrance or armor) with a move action the monk in your example can move 70feet with a move action, 140 with a double move, or X4 with a run (280 per round). If you have the run feat it is X5 with a run (yes, that is 350 per round).

- Gauss

Edit: CRB p192 also has rules on speed. These rules discuss bonuses to speed that specifically include the statement that experienced monks have higher speed.

Edit 2: CRB p188 talks about the Run action.

The point of all of this is: Monk has an enhancement bonus to base speed. This means a monks speed is his base speed (assuming no reductions for spells, encumbrance, and armor). Speed is multiplied by the run modifier (X3, X4, or X5 as appropriate). Thus your monk with the run feat has a speed of 70 and a run speed of 350.

And yes, I know this is all moot if a monk has encumbrance or armor on since they negate his fast movement ability. But if I didn't include it someone would point it out.

[MC Templar]

yes this means a monk on even terrain can cover more than a mile before having to make con checks to slow down

[Belafon]

Also, unless something odd is going on a level 17 monk should have +50' of movement.

[Gauss]

I hadnt checked the stats on how much of an enhancement bonus to speed the monk was getting as I was taking the OPs statement of +40 at face value. +40 or +50 was mostly irrelevant to the discussion anyhow. :)

- Gauss

[Everstrange]

Oh. Alright. I see now. I actually found some information on the website here, but I misread "encumbrance" for "enhancement" So I was a bit confused. But thank you for the sources in the book. That helped greatly.

Also Belafon, you are right, they should have the +50. It was late and I messed that up, my bad.

Thanks again guys.

[Everstrange]

I do have another question though... under the common terms section found here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary

it says:

Your speed after calculating your normal speed and applying all other adjustments that affect your normal speed is your full speed. In most circumstances, your full speed is the same as your normal speed. Some effects modify normal speed however do not specifically add to its total, such as the haste spell. This newly modified speed is your full speed.

In example, Kraag a half-orc barbarian, wearing hide armor (medium armor) has just had haste cast on him. Kraag calculates his speed as follows:

Total base land speed: 40’ (30’ half-orc base speed; +10’ barbarian in light or medium armor, untyped bonus for Fast Movement class feature)

Total normal speed: 30’ (40’ total base land speed; -10’ reduction as per Table: Encumbrance Effects)

Total full speed: 60’ (30’ total normal speed +30’ enhancement speed bonus)

So since the monks bonus to his speed is an enhancement, wouldn't it only qualify only as full speed and not base land speed?

I looked in the book at the pages you quoted. and it didn't say anything about Full speed.

[Gauss]

First of all, I would be very careful about using the D20PFSRD. It is not always RAW. Honestly, I wish people would stop referencing the d20pfsrd during rules questions. It causes more problems than it solves.

The only places full speed is referenced in the Core Rulebook are:

p67 where it talks about a ranger moving full speed while tracking.
p68 where it talks about a rogue moving full speed while using stealth.
p68 where it talks about a rogue using acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces.
p88 where it talks about using acrobatics to move past foes.
p89 where it talks about the penalty for using acrobatics on narrow surfaces at full speed.
p119 Blind Fight where it talks about the moving while blinded.
p202 where it talks about the penalties on melee attacks while mounted.
p563 where it talks about the perception modifier for an invisibile creature moving at full speed.

This is the entirety of every reference to 'full speed' in the CRB. There are no examples of what the D20PFSRD is talking about.

Simply put: the D20PFSRD is trying to generally explain an idea and you are trying to get very specific about what it is trying to generalize.

- Gauss

[Axl]

Gauss wrote:

First of all, I would be very careful about using the D20PFSRD. It is not always RAW. Honestly, I wish people would stop referencing the d20pfsrd during rules questions. It causes more problems than it solves.

I have found d20pfsrd to be more reliable than the core rulebook or the Paizo prd. d20pfsrd is updated frequently and clearly with errata & FAQ, and also annotated with selected developers' comments.

[Gauss]

And yet, it is sometimes incorrect. Please, don't get me wrong on this. It is great for finding information. I use it that way all the time. But it is not RAW and I ALWAYS double check the information there against the latest printing.

- Gauss

[Grizzly the Archer]

Check this other thread which had a similar issue I reference to land speed.
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5ill?Boots-of-striding-and-springing-and-speed# 18

Also, the +40 movement is providing a +16 to you're jump check.

[Everstrange]

Ah, Thank you again Gauss. I said the same thing to my DM when I brought this issue up. but then he quoted the D20PFSRD. And I couldn't find anything about full speed in the book. So I assumed that the book trumped the website. the DM thought it was the other way around.

[Gauss]

D20PFSRD is a third party reference guide. It is not run by paizo, it is not published by paizo. It contains the occassional errors and it also contains comments by the D20PFSRD people in an attempt to make certain topics make more sense. The whole 'full speed' section is an example of this. There is no corresponding section in either the Core Rulebook, PRD, or FAQ that I have been able to find.

As I said, it is a great resource but not RAW.

- Gauss