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What weapons do you think the Neanderthal race would be naturally proficient with? I currently have them stated as having 4 free proficiencies but am having problems filling the last 2 slots currently i have Greatclubs & handaxes but not really sure what other 2 would really work. Currently my only real requirement is that it could be made of stone, wood, or bone materials, any ideas?
Spears and bows and arrows could work. Knives/daggers might also be possible.
Daggers, small axes and spears are all things which actual Neanderthals were known to have used.
They probably would not use any kinds of ranged weapons, since Neanderthals were anatomically unable to make the required throwing motions. Also, injuries found on Neanderthal skeletons are consistent with those of rodeo riders, suggesting that they hunted only with meele weapons by just jumping on irate megafauna, which is pretty badass. [/geekout]
If you do not care about being completely accurate to the archeological record, slings and javelins are probably good choices.
Spear ans sling.
I don't believe that Neanderthal sites have ever indicated that they used bows. I believe the primary weapon found have been spears. As Caleth says, the current belief is that their anatomy was not conducive to throwing. Stone axes and hammers are likely, but they probably did not really employ ranged attacks.
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Daggers, small axes and spears are all things which actual Neanderthals were known to have used.
They probably would not use any kinds of ranged weapons, since Neanderthals were anatomically unable to make the required throwing motions. Also, injuries found on Neanderthal skeletons are consistent with those of rodeo riders, suggesting that they hunted only with meele weapons by just jumping on irate megafauna, which is pretty badass. [/geekout]
If you do not care about being completely accurate to the archeological record, slings and javelins are probably good choices.
Actually from what I've read it wasn't that they couldn't perform the motions for bow use just that they didn't have the technology to craft bows & the like.
As for starting weapons my current load out for them is Greatclub, Handaxe, Boar Spear, and Harpoon. I felt the boar spear just seemed too perfect for them and harpoon just seemed cool.
Also totally with you on the whole "would jump on their megafauna prey and wrestle them to the ground" why I gave them Ancestral Foe vs. animals (+2 dodge bonus to AC and +2 to grapple checks). Thought that would be just too cool.
Actually from what I've read it wasn't that they couldn't perform the motions for bow use just that they didn't have the technology to craft bows & the like.
I thought it was something anatomic, since there is no evidence that they could throw spears which they certainly had.
Actually from what I've read it wasn't that they couldn't perform the motions for bow use just that they didn't have the technology to craft bows & the like.I thought it was something anatomic, since there is no evidence that they could throw spears which they certainly had.
Using a bow and throwing a spear aren't similar actions. Neanderthals may have been ill-suited to spear throwing but still perfectly capable of using bows.
What I've seen on the subject seems more to indicate that lack of bows was more of a technology issue than a physiological one.
Using a bow and throwing a spear aren't similar actions. Neanderthals may have been ill-suited to spear throwing but still perfectly capable of using bows.What I've seen on the subject seems more to indicate that lack of bows was more of a technology issue than a physiological one.
We're also dealing in fantasy. Spells, dragons, demons, etc all exist. Doc could allow them to use primitive bows with stone arrows if he felt like it fit.
I think the great clubs, hand axes, spears, and daggers would probably fit best, though slings might fit as well. Strangely the way neanderthals get described tends to remind me of Dwarves....
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Using a bow and throwing a spear aren't similar actions. Neanderthals may have been ill-suited to spear throwing but still perfectly capable of using bows.What I've seen on the subject seems more to indicate that lack of bows was more of a technology issue than a physiological one.
We're also dealing in fantasy. Spells, dragons, demons, etc all exist. Doc could allow them to use primitive bows with stone arrows if he felt like it fit.
I think the great clubs, hand axes, spears, and daggers would probably fit best, though slings might fit as well. Strangely the way neanderthals get described tends to remind me of Dwarves....
Crap cpu erased my first response anyways...
Currently my explanation is that neanderthal's do not make bows normally but can pick them up from the nomadic human & elf tribes or the dwarven clans of the region. In this way neanderthal's can be trained in their use like any other character but they are not a weapon which all neanderthal's would be trained in from the moment they could heft one like a weapon that you would get from weapon familiarity.
Now as for dagger's I didn't want to use them as I think every PC class and almost all NPC classes get proficiency with daggers as part of the class so it felt like a waste to burn the slot on something near every class already comes equipped with.
Finally, yes I totally agree with you on the Dwarves Neanderthal's similarities, was actually my thoughts exactly while I was building the race and both liked that I was getting that vibe as I liked the association with a tough naturally hardy race but also tried to make sure I didn't just end up with a human dwarf (hence they don't get a Str bonus instead of a Con bonus and a few other things). Other thing I decided was that they actually share enough genetic similarities that they can produce viable offspring where it happens (usually produces either another dwarf or neanderthal) unlike normal human dwarf pairings which would usually produce a half-dwarf "mule", a sterile cross breed.
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The ATLATL is a little known hunting weapon that predated the bow. It was used to hunt mammoths. It's in Ultimate Combat.
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Ayla invented the atlatl (spearthrower) in the Clan of the Cave Bear series of books. :-P I'm just waiting for her to invent the wheel and written language.
We're also dealing in fantasy. Spells, dragons, demons, etc all exist. Doc could allow them to use primitive bows with stone arrows if he felt like it fit.I think the great clubs, hand axes, spears, and daggers would probably fit best, though slings might fit as well. Strangely the way neanderthals get described tends to remind me of Dwarves....
Crap cpu erased my first response anyways...
Currently my explanation is that neanderthal's do not make bows normally but can pick them up from the nomadic human & elf tribes or the dwarven clans of the region. In this way neanderthal's can be trained in their use like any other character but they are not a weapon which all neanderthal's would be trained in from the moment they could heft one like a weapon that you would get from weapon familiarity.
Now as for dagger's I didn't want to use them as I think every PC class and almost all NPC classes get proficiency with daggers as part of the class so it felt like a waste to burn the slot on something near every class already comes equipped with.
Finally, yes I totally agree with you on the Dwarves Neanderthal's similarities, was actually my thoughts exactly while I was building the race and both liked that I was getting that vibe as I liked the association with a tough naturally hardy race but also tried to make sure I didn't just end up with a human dwarf (hence they don't get a Str bonus instead of a Con bonus and a few other things). Other thing I decided was that they actually share enough genetic similarities that they can produce viable offspring where it happens (usually produces either another dwarf or neanderthal) unlike normal human dwarf pairings...
Ah, okay. Perhaps they have some sort of stone hammer they're proficient in? Slings could also work here.
*nods* I've always found it a bit odd that humans could produce viable half-children with elves and orcs but not with any other humanoid race. I've also found it strange that no one hase ever created an elf-orc given that if they're capable of having viable children with humans they ought to be able to have viable children with one another.
I've been considering whether it would work to have Dwarves, Elves and similar simply be branches of the homo genus that survived and thus evolved from a common ancestor with Humans.
Ayla invented the atlatl (spearthrower) in the Clan of the Cave Bear series of books. :-P I'm just waiting for her to invent the wheel and written language.
I've read the books. I'm pretty sure she did invent those too. As well as fire, animal domestication, religion and pornography.
What weapons do you think the Neanderthal race would be naturally proficient with? I currently have them stated as having 4 free proficiencies but am having problems filling the last 2 slots currently i have Greatclubs & handaxes but not really sure what other 2 would really work. Currently my only real requirement is that it could be made of stone, wood, or bone materials, any ideas?
From what I have read, they did not use bows or thrown spears. Given stone-age technology, that doesn't leave a lot of options:
Dagger, hand-axe, club, great club, spear, longspear.
On the other hand they would be awesome at survival.
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Harpoons could and were developed by stone-age cultures, making them out of bone, antler, even the stings of stingrays.
Bows don't make much thematic sense. Neanderthals would be more strong and hardy than lithe and agile, perhaps? If you're going to jump the megafauna, so to speak, maybe give them Scent? Throw Anything also makes sense as a racial feat. I picture them more feral than sophisticated. Cool concept!
I'd say your weapon choices are spot-on, clubs, daggers, spears, and I'd say javelins and maybe saps, too. ("Crog make bad man sleep with bag of rocks.") Likely made of bone or stone, as others have pointed out, unless traded for with others.
Weapons found in Neaderthal dig sites include Spears (knapped flint, bone, and fire hardened heads), Javelins (fire-hardened), stone hand axes (no haft, basically a flint axe head used in the hand), knives (flint and bone in the main) and in the Neander valley, bone harpoons. Although studies show that they most likely didn't use ranged weapons such as slings, there is no reason I can see that they couldn't.
And as good as the Clan of the Cave Bear is, if you want a real feel for adventurous prehistoric life, read Hok the Mighty by Manly Wade Wellman, Isaac Asimov's Wonderful Worlds of Science Fiction #6: Neanderthals, or pretty much any of ERB's novels featuring "lost worlds" (Land that Time Forgot, People that Time Forgot, and any of the Pellucidar novels).
