I'm working on a Ninja for a kingmaker campaign i'm going to be in soon, and was looking for advice, i'm currently looking at a human ninja, with the stat block of
Str 14
Dex 16 (+2 racial is here)
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 14
I know the stats are "average" but Ninja do suffer from MAD, and since i'm going to be the main skill monkey, i needed the higher INT.
She's going to be focused more on using poisons than brute force once we start getting the cashflow for me to craft poisons, so i'm going to have a rank in Craft(Alchemy) every level, plus Stealth, Bluff, Disable Device and Perception, but I need advice on feats to take. I'm thinking of taking Combat Expertise and Improved Feint at first level, unless you guys would suggest a different path.
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I know the stats are "average" but Ninja do suffer from MAD, and since i'm going to be the main skill monkey, i needed the higher INT.
That's a 30 point-buy.
You definitely don't need a 16 in int as a ninja. Shore up your weak will save by having a 14 in wisdom and intellect each. If you're not going Weapon Finesse, swap your strength and dexterity and wield a katana two-handed.
Either go for a dex TWF build that relies on Sneak attacks for damage, in which case you really don't need a high strength, it barely affects your damage really. 10 or 12 str are enough then.
Or go with a Str build they're great too for damage. two-hand wield a katana, but your dex skills and AC will suffer from that.
And yes, you have alot of skill points already, with 14 int its still 12 as human. More than enough to keep alot of skills high.
Assuming you go with TWF, obviously Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, TWF, ITWF.
I do like the idea of dipping one level into Monk, Maneuver Master and pick Improved Dirty Tricks. Have to be lawful for it though. Allows you to make one additional DT attempt per full attack, which you can use to blind the enemy => sneak attack.
Others will come and say you should just go invisible for that. Well that really only works after level 10 when you get Invisible Blade trick, before that Vanish only works on your first attack. And by level 10 there are alot of ways to see through invisibility too, so another way to get sneak attacks is always good.
I know the stats are "average" but Ninja do suffer from MAD, and since i'm going to be the main skill monkey, i needed the higher INT.That's a 30 point-buy.
You definitely don't need a 16 in int as a ninja. Shore up your weak will save by having a 14 in wisdom and intellect each. If you're not going Weapon Finesse, swap your strength and dexterity and wield a katana two-handed.
actually it is a 25 point buy, i messed up and added an extra 4 to con. i originally had it at 10 (my bad) and I need the int specifically because i'm going to be the one handling most of the skills in the party, the rest of the party that is for sure is a Cleric of Abadar(sp?) a Pirate Bard who is going to be the face of the party, most likely a barbarian, and no one is sure about the 5th face of the party. So the high int is for more skill points, and for craft(alchemy), as i said in my previous post, i'm going to be focusing on using poisons from stealth.
I'm not looking for a optimized combat build, and knowing this GM he focuses less on the combat aspects of the game and more on the skill side.
The reason I kept the high dex was again, stealth based, as well as I will still need the AC bonus, as well as i'm most likely going to be filling in the Spy Master or Royal Assassin leader spot in the kingdom once we get it started, so Int will help me more than strength in either of those cases.
Also with the sneak attacks, i'm going to be feinting alot, or sniping, especially once i get my shuriken tricks. I would have made this character a straight rogue, but our GM houseruled them out because he feels they are s%**-tier, and that the ninja does it all, plus more.
Just because you're handling skills does not mean you have to keep them all maxed.
Also if the bard is handling the face skills, thats alot of skills out of the way that you don't need to have maxed either.
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How many skills does a skill monkey even need?
With a 14 in intellect as a human ninja, you can have 11 skills per level. That is
Acrobatics
Bluff
Climb
Craft (alchemy)
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Perception
Stealth
Swim
Use Magic Device
Not all of these need to be maxed, so at level 2 you can rank up some knowledges while keeping stuff like Acrobatics, Bluff, Craft, and Use Magic Device maxed out.
I don't know how your GM handles combat, but I would never recommend heading into battle with only 10 constitution; here is a stat set I would recommend for your character:
Str 12, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15
This has a ton of skills, but emphasizes improving your dexterity more as time goes on. At level 4 you'll have an 18, and at level 8 you can increase your charisma, which should be your secondary stat. Dexterity can be your prime stat, which will set you up perfectly to be a Royal Assassin or Spymaster; the high charisma will also make you a possible ruler, or husband of the ruler.
Going with this spread, which i'm assuming is original buy of 12, 15, 12, 14, 12, 15, what would a good feat suggestion be? I'm thinking roleplay reasons why to take Skill Focus: Craft(Alchemy) and either Combat Expertise or Improved Initiative, possibly TWF instead of craft alchemy which i can pick up later. But since i'm going to be mainly focusing on utilizing poisons, would TWF be a poor choice? Unless i go WF as well. I'm still used to the old 3.5 one feat per 3 levels, instead of every odd level.
And when adding the extra ability points through leveling, should I alternate between Dex and Cha, or would a 16 Cha be good enough in the long haul, as I know that there are +CHA wondrous items to be bought and/or crafted at later levels
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16 charisma is fine for the long haul if you include magical items. I wouldn't bother with Skill Focus: Craft, as your return is likely to be pretty bad. You can take 10 on a craft check, and at the low levels before your craft gets high you won't have the cash for poison anyway.
You said you wanted a shuriken throwing build, so I'm assuming they would be poisoned in advance and kept in select pouches depending on what poison you wanted. I would go with Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot, and alternate between a bow and shurikens. Flanking in melee you'll still have a +3 at first level, and at low levels you probably just want to aid another so the fighter can hit.
Weapon Finesse is another option, but I'm not a fan of finesse builds. If you want to be in melee, a katana and high strength will serve you more reliably.
After looking over the class and thinking about how i want to play, mainly being a poison user, i'm looking at switching over to a Vivisectionist since it seems to be more my play style and working better for the character concept as well (poisons and what not) plus it gives me most of the same skills (at least the important ones) and depending on how the GM house rules trapfinding, most of us feel that if you have Disable Device as a class skill, you should be able to disarm even magical traps, i will go pure vivi, or dip one level of rogue to get trapfinding.
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Being able to disable magical traps is usually not the important part of Disable Device. At level 5 the wizard has access to dispel magic, and you guys will always have access to summon monster. What's more important is seeing the traps in advance.
Feral mutagen vivisectionist can have a nasty full attack, especially if you can stack greater invisibility on there. Going beastmorph as well gives the option of pounce at level 10.
I think i might still dip a level of rogue to get stealth as a class skill, since it won't hurt my sneak attack progression, but it will hurt my BAB. would you say keep my spread the same, just switch the dex and int? or should i go the full 18 (16 + 2 racial)?
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The Bandit trait would give you stealth as a class skill, but I wouldn't really worry about it. Alchemists get access to invisibility, and the +3 is almost made up for just by taking a mutagen for +4 dexterity.
If you're going for combat, keep your intellect lower than your physical stat of choice. If you're going to be focusing more on extracts and buffing your party with them, keep intellect higher. Vivisectionists have lower need for intellect than most alchemists because they don't have bombs; remember though if you're going for a finesse build especially that your will save will be very low. The dexterity mutagen lowers wisdom; counter with Iron Will.
That said, a strength build will be more reliable and give better damage. Going high strength, medium dexterity will let you do high damage sneak attack or no; with feral mutagen you'll be clawing up a storm, and without it you can use a longspear.
actually i'm thinking of making this character back into an elf like i had orginally planned, with a spread of
STR 12
Dex 15 (13 +2)
Con 12 (14 -2)
Int 18 (16 +2)
Wis 14
Cha 10
so you say probably:
Str 14
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 14
Cha 10
then?
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If you're still planning on finesse, I would switch the dexterity and intellect. Alchemists don't need a ton of intellect like wizards; they need only enough to keep their extracts going.
As an elf strength build with a 25 point-buy:
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8
As an elf finesse build with a 25 point-buy:
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8
The finesse build is going to be slightly more accurate at the expense of damage. I don't personally think it's worth it, but it's up to you.
thanks for the help Mergy, i'm most likely going to go with the strength build, as it will help more in the long run, and if i decide i wish to be stealthier later on, i'll focus on dex over str. but it does strike a good balance