My character is an 8th level Teifling Rogue, who has, thus far, concentrated only on skill-based feats and talents. How do I now create a "feared' combatant out of him?
My profile is my character. The gear chances have been difficult to consistently acquire, but I was able to purchase some useful items: Handy Haversack, Ring of feather fall, Efficient Quiver,Cloak of resistance+2, necklace of NA+2, Ring of Pro.+1, Eyes of the Eagle, Vest of Escape, Boots of Striding/Springing,Wand of Exp. retreat, various scrolls, mithral chain shirt+1, and Buckler+1.
I personally prefer playing a skirmisher rogue, darting in and out. Spring Attack is nice. Also, have enough strength to qualify for Power Attack with a shortsword or rapier. Getting some critical feats for your rapier is a good idea. Gang Up feat is nice to expand the way you can flank and there are some talents like Powerful Sneak that can help to make your Sneak Attack Damage greater.
Thanks Odraude. I am torn between the "combat" path verses the UMD path.
I don't see any issues with both. UMD just requires you to put the skill points into it. Your Charisma isn't bad by any stretch and it's a class skill.
I currently have a 13 UMD and my attack with my rapier(mw) and comp. shortbow are both +9 right now. I've considered taking 4 lvls in open-handed fighter for the feats and BAB (not to mention some Fort save help)
power attack and vital strike would be a nice help to augment my damage. It's currently 1d6+2 plus 4d6 if sneak is good. I was planning on taking Imp.Feint ( Bluff 15).
Improved Feint is nice. I'm not sure what other feats you have unfortunately.
I have Deepsight, Deft hands, Skill Focus(Acrobatics), and Combat Expertise. My Talents are Canny Observer, Fast Stealth, Stand up, and I just took befuddling strike. I was concentrating on non-combat roles but I would like to be more.....capable.
Fair point. You could definitely look at the weapon finesse talent for a rapier (I like rapiers :D) since your Dexterity is higher than your Strength. I'd still look at getting Gang Up next level as it really opens up your options of Sneak Attacking than just flanking.
The Skill Focus (Acrobatics) will actually be really good in helping you tumble (See Acrobatics: Move Through Threatened Squares) and avoid Attacks of Opportunity. Also if you have a wizard, get him to get you Greater Invisibility. It is nice on you and allows your iterative attacks to gain Sneak Attack.
I'll need to look up Gang Up. And I am a big fan of the Rapier. I was planning on taking Imp. Crit at BAB+8. I am really torn between staying allRogue or delving into the Fighter 4 lvls? I want the BAB, Fort, and Feats, but I hate missing those Rogue lvls too.
I'll need to look up Gang Up. And I am a big fan of the Rapier. I was planning on taking Imp. Crit at BAB+8. I am really torn between staying allRogue or delving into the Fighter 4 lvls? I want the BAB, Fort, and Feats, but I hate missing those Rogue lvls too.
Gang Up should be in the APG if I recall correctly. As for dipping, I don't think it'd hurt to grab at least one level of fighter.
I figure if I dip I might as well go 4 for weapon specialization too. I'll sacrifice some sneak damage, but pick up all those other thing, including onuses from the open-handed fighter variant.
I'll gain +1 BAB, +2 Fort, -2 Ref, -2 Will, lose two Talents, gain 3 Feats, gain +1 CMB Disarm & Feint, plus d10 HD, but (and the big one) lose 28 skill points. All this compares my next 4 lvls between Rogue and Fighter. Hmmm...Rogue is looking better.
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For straight rogue combat power, you are going to be hard pressed to do better than this.
For straight rogue combat power, you are going to be hard pressed to do better than this.
Issue is, he's playing an established character. I don't think he can retroactively take some archetype levels.
Character looks hella fun though.
I like my character a lot, but i may be getting greedy. He is a very fun character, especially with his high skills, including Acrobatics 17, Bluff 15, diplomacy 13, Disable device 22, Escape Artist 20, Perception 18 (not including Canny Observer), Sense Motive 13, Sleight of Hand 16 (now that's fun), Stealth 21, Swim 9, and UMD 13. I left some minor ones out.
My Rogue is 3rd level and facing the same problems, being under powered.
STR 13 DEX 18 Con 12 Int 11 Wis 13 Cha 10
I like rapiers also, and have the following Feats
Dodge
Weapon Finesse (Rogue Talent)
Two Weapon Fighting
Mobility
I may take Weapon Finesse once may Dex climbs higher (belt),but I don't see the benefit yet for me. We used the 25 point build and started our campaign at 3rd lvl with 3000gp.
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On a different perspective, you could try to maximize your ability to deal ranged damage. If you could convince your GM, perhaps you should switch your levels out for a Ninja. While you may lose Trap-Finding, you still get an abundance of resources at your disposal skill-wise.
The reason for this is that you need a healthy Ki Pool in order to use Vanishing Trick often, which is basically a swift-action Invisibility (Greater Invisibility at lvl 10 via Invisible Blade) that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity, needs no spell components, and cannot be dispelled.
Use this ability in conjunction with items like Sniper Goggles and the Distance weapon quality on a shortbow, and you can easily deliver a vital-strike (or full attacks at lvl10 via Invisible Blade) while under the benefits of invisibility (+2 to attack rolls, target loses DEX bonus to AC, which means every attack while invisible is a sneak attack).
There are creatures with blindsight and lifesense, but they normally don't reach further than 60 feet. With the ability to sneak attack at any distance, you can stay out of their sense range and maintain invisibility benefits. True seeing is a bit harder to get around, as it goes as far as 120 feet.
At later levels, this will allow you to consistently deal sneak-attacks from any position far more often.
I'm the only Trap Finder in the party, plus i do like that aspect to my character as I devoted Feats and gold toward it. I see him more as a Duelist-type but i don't like the Feat requirements to go there officially.
Although, now that I'm looking at it, dipping into open-haned fighter for two lvls, than going into Duelist wouldn't be bad if I'm willing to give up my "Rogue" stuff.Hmmm...
My Rogue is 3rd level and facing the same problems, being under powered.
STR 13 DEX 18 Con 12 Int 11 Wis 13 Cha 10
I like rapiers also, and have the following Feats
Dodge
Weapon Finesse (Rogue Talent)
Two Weapon Fighting
Mobility
That's one reason why I dislike Two Weapon Fighting as a rogue. It does allow for more sneak attacks, but you have a great chance to miss. The rogue I played for PFS had a bit higher STR (14), and Power attack a bit later on. It helped me to do some decent damage with my rapier and with good flanking tactics + Gang Up, I could get Sneak Attack off every round. The only thing that stopped me was anything that couldn't be flanked.
Dot
I do like the Power Attack option (I thought light weapons were excluded) combined with Imp. Feint is nice. Later on pick up vital strike and Imp. crit. will be bonuses.
I do like the Power Attack option (I thought light weapons were excluded) combined with Imp. Feint is nice. Later on pick up vital strike and Imp. crit. will be bonuses.
That's why I use a rapier and a longspear as my back up weapon. Although, you cannot two-hand a rapier so you don't get the 50% bonus damage from Power Attack. Also, if you are an elf or spend the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for it, you can get the Elven Curved Blade for free. It's nice damage, two handed, and it is finessable.
For straight rogue combat power, you are going to be hard pressed to do better than this.Issue is, he's playing an established character. I don't think he can retroactively take some archetype levels.
Character looks hella fun though.
Yep. She can hit for lots of damage (lethal and nonlethal), stack numerous penalties upon her foes, and buff her AC all at once!
And she will basically always get her sneak attack damage.
It never hurts to ask the GM if you can make a few changes, you know, to promote "having more fun."
I'd consider multiclassing. There are plenty of option that will make you a better combat machine by just taking 4 levels of another class. In some case you could 12 and 8. 12 Levels of rogue gets you all you need really, then take 8 level of Vivisection (Alchemist Archetype), that really makes the rogue a lot better in combat.
I don't think that i want to "change" anything, because i really do enjoy the skilled character. I just want to be able to hold my own and contribute during the combats a little more. I like the power attack/Imp. feint combo. I need to decide if combat expertise now or power attack now? If I use either one my attack drops down to +7. So do I want +2 AC or +4 Damage now?
I love this game!
I'd consider multiclassing. There are plenty of option that will make you a better combat machine by just taking 4 levels of another class. In some case you could 12 and 8. 12 Levels of rogue gets you all you need really, then take 8 level of Vivisection (Alchemist Archetype), that really makes the rogue a lot better in combat.
I've never looked at that variant. This is my first official PF character. I REALLY like the changes that they made. I feel like a kid in Toys R Us with $100!
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I do like the Power Attack option (I thought light weapons were excluded) combined with Imp. Feint is nice. Later on pick up vital strike and Imp. crit. will be bonuses.
I do have to ask, why would you ever want to take Vital Strike? At best it's going to be an extra 3.5 points of damage and will prevent you from taking your iterative attacks. There are a ton of better feats out there for you if damage is important to you.
I do like the Power Attack option (I thought light weapons were excluded) combined with Imp. Feint is nice. Later on pick up vital strike and Imp. crit. will be bonuses.I do have to ask, why would you ever want to take Vital Strike? At best it's going to be an extra 3.5 points of damage and will prevent you from taking your iterative attacks. There are a ton of better feats out there for you if damage is important to you.
I actually prefer Vital Strike to full round attacking. Sure, you get extra attacks, but how many of them will actually hit? With the Vital Strike line, you get all of the weapon damage you'd want in one hit. Plus, as a Rogue, I don't really want to be in one spot for long because being surrounded is something that you just want to avoid. I prefer skirmishing to standing in one area.
That said, I will admit it is a bit rough for a 3/4 BAB class to get all of the Vital Strike feats. I'd probably be happy with Vital Strike and Devastating Strike. With all of the Sneak Attack damage dice you get, it makes up for not getting the Greater and Improved Vital Strikes.
It doesn't say that Vital Strike is a full-round action, only that it uses your the attack action, you can make an attack with your highest BAB for the extra die damage. It doesn't say that you cam continue your attacks as normal.
I'd consider multiclassing. There are plenty of option that will make you a better combat machine by just taking 4 levels of another class. In some case you could 12 and 8. 12 Levels of rogue gets you all you need really, then take 8 level of Vivisection (Alchemist Archetype), that really makes the rogue a lot better in combat.I've never looked at that variant. This is my first official PF character. I REALLY like the changes that they made. I feel like a kid in Toys R Us with $100!
The Alchemist looks cool with the Vivisection variant for the continues sneak attacks, but do you still gain their Discoveries?
It doesn't say that Vital Strike is a full-round action, only that it uses your the attack action, you can make an attack with your highest BAB for the extra die damage. It doesn't say that you cam continue your attacks as normal.
Exactly. You can move about and attack someone with Vital Strike. That said, because of the wording, you cannot combine Vital Strike with Spring Attack. Ask your GM their opinion on the subject and see if they are okay with it. I know there is a precedent of it combining in one of the APs and some people on the forums don't believe it would be very unbalancing if you can. So, just run it by your GM.
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The Alchemist looks cool with the Vivisection variant for the continues sneak attacks, but do you still gain their Discoveries?
You do indeed. The only thing you lose is bombs. If you're willing to burn two levels on it, you could grab Feral Mutagen and gain the ability to turn into a Str 18 sneak attacking monster with 3 attacks per round. You could then (at 11th) grab the Feat for Extra Discovery (Infuse Mutagen), prepare some backups, and do it more than onc a day if necessary. Or even wait for 12th if you stick with alchemist past those two levels.
You'd also get extracts of Shield which is a very solid AC bump.
This sounds like a good idea. I advise it.
Luckily, I have a very good Acrobatics, so Spring Attack isn't needed. I thank you all for your comments and I need to be going. So, I tip my hat to you, bowing ever so gracefully (Eyes constantly searching for trouble) and back out the door. Until next we meet......
