Advice requested for druid build with barbarian dip

[Dagada]

Hey all. Was really interested in play a bear shamnan and was toying with the idea of a Barbarian dip (2 lvls). The basis of this was to get Rage and one rage power by 2 (Extra Rage). My thinking was that this dip not only would give me the rage ability for my bear forms but also +1 BAB early on and Fast movement.

Now as I started charting the character progression and it seems lackluster that this build is going to take until Character lvl 8 (druid lvl 6) for me to get access to wildshape, and thus the build to come together.

Any suggetions. Race Human, no ability stats have been rolled, this is just therorycraft as they say. Is there a better way to do this? Will only a 1 lvl dip of barb and just the basic rage still pack a punch or should it be scraped?

I also read about a possible lvl 1 monk dip for the AC Bonus (Ex). Any advice from builds that have done this? Could this be a better option then the barb?

(1st) Lvl 1 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Nature bond, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy Human Feat: Starting Feat:

(2nd) Lvl 1 - Barbarian: Fast movement, rage

(3rd) Lvl 2 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Woodland stride, Totem transformation, Feat

(4th) Lvl 2 - Barbarian: Rage power, uncanny dodge, Ability point

(5th) Lvl 3 - Druid (Bear Shamnan) Feat

(6th) Lvl 4 - Druid (Bear Shamnan) Resist nature’s lure,

(7th) Lvl 5 - Druid (Bear Shamnan) Totemic Summons, Feat

(8th) Lvl 6 - Druid (Bear Shamnan) Wild Shape (1day)

(9th) Lvl 7 - Druid (Bear Shamnan) Bonus feat

Thanks in advance.

[Thamius]

If you haven't already seen it, this thread contains some great insights into the bear (and other) shaman abilities, with numerous comments from the designer who wrote those sections of the APG.

I think your build looks pretty solid. I have often considered dipping my wolf shaman druid into barbarian for a level or two, I still may. Make sure to grab the Raging Vitality feat as soon as possible!

[Cornielius]

Shaping Focus feat, from Ultimate Magic.
If you are a multiclassed druid, count your level as four higher (not to exceed your character level) when calculating wildshape.
So no minus to wild shape from a dip of up to four levels.

[Feral]

I did almost this exact same build for my first PFS character.

I would suggest putting your second barbarian level off until level 8. You want large bear form ASAP.

[Mergy]

First bit of advice is to start your first level as barbarian. Maxing out that d12 hit die is a nice first level boost, and rage tends to be quite front-loaded until you have a lot of rage powers, so it's going to be most effective at early levels.

If you go with two levels of barbarian, I would suggest the lesser fiend totem rage power for a gore attack. It's an extra natural attack to stack with your totem transformation, and you can turn into a raging dire bear... with HORNS.

I would recommend looking into lion shaman, however: felines get pounce while bears do not.

[Feral]

We all know that cats are the best animals in Pathfinder.

Maybe he's going for thematics.

[Dagada]

thanks everyone for the reply's. Been working on and off the build all afternoon.

Lvl 1 - Barbarian: Fast movement, rage
human feat- Extra Rage, feat -Improved iniative

Lvl 1 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Nature bond, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy
O lvl spells-create water, detec magic, spark
1 lvl spells-entangle

Lvl 2 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Woodland stride, Totem transformation,
Feat- toughness
o lvl spells- light
1 lvl spells- Obscuring Mist

Lvl 3 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Trackless step, ability point + Wis or str
2 lvl spells- fog cloud

Lvl 4 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Resist nature`s lure, feat-Natural spell
1 lvl spells - cure light wounds
2 lvl spells - soften earth and stone

Lvl 5 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Totemic Summons
3 lvl spells - Magic fang, Greater

Lvl 6 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Wild Shape (1per day), feat-Shaping focus

I actually agree with doing the barbarian lvl first, just makes more sense.

I have a question about the wildshape for the bear shaman. We dont get WS till lvl 6. for a vanilla druid this would be WS 2 per day. At lvl 6 do I get 1 change per day or 2?.

[Dagada]

- also yes thematically its about bears. I recognize the optimization point of cats but bears fit the campaign setting better.

[Mergy]

Dagada wrote:

thanks everyone for the reply's. Been working on and off the build all afternoon.

Lvl 1 - Barbarian: Fast movement, rage
human feat- Extra Rage, feat -Improved iniative

Lvl 1 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Nature bond, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy
O lvl spells-create water, detec magic, spark
1 lvl spells-entangle

Lvl 2 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Woodland stride, Totem transformation,
Feat- toughness
o lvl spells- light
1 lvl spells- Obscuring Mist

Lvl 3 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Trackless step, ability point + Wis or str
2 lvl spells- fog cloud

Lvl 4 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Resist nature`s lure, feat-Natural spell
1 lvl spells - cure light wounds
2 lvl spells - soften earth and stone

Lvl 5 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Totemic Summons
3 lvl spells - Magic fang, Greater

Lvl 6 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Wild Shape (1per day), feat-Shaping focus

I actually agree with doing the barbarian lvl first, just makes more sense.

I have a question about the wildshape for the bear shaman. We dont get WS till lvl 6. for a vanilla druid this would be WS 2 per day. At lvl 6 do I get 1 change per day or 2?.

You get three if you would turn into a bear, but only one otherwise.

Your build would enjoy Power Attack more than Improved Initiative.

[Dagada]

Here is the revised build as of this evening

15-14-13-12-10-8 not distributed yet and without racials (Human)

Lvl 1 - Barbarian: Fast movement (+10 feet speed), rage ( +2 STR and CON, +1 Will, -2 AC)
Human feat- Extra Rage, Feat -Power attack

Leather armour + 2 AC
Spear (1d8 20x3)
Dagger (1d4 19–20/x2)
Club (1d6 x 2)

Lvl 1 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Nature bond, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy
O lvl spells-create water, detec magic, spark
1 lvl spells-entangle

Bear:
Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor;
Attack bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement- Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Lvl 2 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Woodland stride, Totem transformation,
Feat- toughness
o lvl spells- light
1 lvl spells- Obscuring Mist

Lvl 3 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Trackless step, ability point + Wis or Str
2 lvl spells- fog cloud

Lvl 4 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Resist nature`s lure, feat-Natural spell
1 lvl spells - cure light wounds
2 lvl spells - soften earth and stone

Lvl 5 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Totemic Summons
3 lvl spells - Magic fang, Greater

Lvl 6 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Wild Shape (3 rounds per day BEAR, 1 round other), feat-Shaping focus
2nd lvl spells - Summon swarm
3rd lvl spells - Stone Shape

Lvl 7 - Druid (Bear Shaman): Wis or Str (opposite of last increase)
3rd lvl spells - Sleet Storm
4th lvl spells - Freedom of movement

Lvl 8 - Druid (Bear Shaman): Wild Shape (5 rounds per day BEAR, 3 rounds other) feat-X
3rd lvl spell - Spider climb
4th lvl spell - cure serious wounds

Lvl 9 - Druid (Bear Shaman): Bonus feat - Endurance
5th lvl spell - Animal growth

[Mergy]

If you're using the elite array, I would arrange as follows:

Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8

First bump into strength, and second into wisdom (you'll need a +2 headband of wisdom by level 7 though to cast your 4th level spells).

I assume the weapon choice is thematic, but if possible try to work a greataxe in there, or at least a longspear; when you get your first druid level I would drop entangle for shillelagh so you can put that club to work.

[Skerek]

I would suggest getting the rage power, moment of clarity, sometimes you will want to cast while not breaking rage.
I have seen a certain barbarian/druid that rarely casts, apart from good berries every morning. I think the only reason the player went druid was to get the AC

[peterrco]

Dagada wrote:

Here is the revised build as of this evening

15-14-13-12-10-8 not distributed yet and without racials (Human)

Lvl 1 - Barbarian: Fast movement (+10 feet speed), rage ( +2 STR and CON, +1 Will, -2 AC)
Human feat- Extra Rage, Feat -Power attack

Leather armour + 2 AC
Spear (1d8 20x3)
Dagger (1d4 19–20/x2)
Club (1d6 x 2)

Lvl 1 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Nature bond, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy
O lvl spells-create water, detec magic, spark
1 lvl spells-entangle

Bear:
Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor;
Attack bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement- Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Lvl 2 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Woodland stride, Totem transformation,
Feat- toughness
o lvl spells- light
1 lvl spells- Obscuring Mist

Lvl 3 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Trackless step, ability point + Wis or Str
2 lvl spells- fog cloud

Lvl 4 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Resist nature`s lure, feat-Natural spell
1 lvl spells - cure light wounds
2 lvl spells - soften earth and stone

Lvl 5 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Totemic Summons
3 lvl spells - Magic fang, Greater

Lvl 6 - Druid (Bear Shamnan): Wild Shape (3 rounds per day BEAR, 1 round other), feat-Shaping focus
2nd lvl spells - Summon swarm
3rd lvl spells - Stone Shape

Lvl 7 - Druid (Bear Shaman): Wis or Str (opposite of last increase)
3rd lvl spells - Sleet Storm
4th lvl spells - Freedom of movement

Lvl 8 - Druid (Bear Shaman): Wild Shape (5 rounds...

Reading this, I'm not sure that you've understood how Wild Shape works.

It isn't 1 round per level, it's 1 hour per level per wild shape.

The abilities that you get when you are wildshaped are based on your Druid Level, which effects which polymorph spell you are able to use, as well the form that you are taking. So as a sixth level Bear Shaman you would be able to change into a Bear for 8 hours, using the Beast shape 3 ability, but would have to wait until you were level 8 before you could use the Elemental Forms.

The spells that you have listed are good caster druid spells, but as combat druid, there are better options. At first level, Longstrider springs to mind, allowing you to move more quickly for 1 hour per day (stacking with the Barbarian bonus). Remember that Druids cast spells like Clerics so that you can change your spell selection every day.

In terms of having a Bear Companion, they are not great, have you considered instead taking the Strength Domain (Ferocity Subdomain) which sounds like it would suit your concept really well, give you extra spells (Enlarge Person at level 1, Rage at level 3), some cool powers, and is available to you as a Bear Shaman?

Whilst the Bear Companion is fairly weak, the Base animals, the Grizzly Bear and Dire Bear are pretty good,you can use Call Animal to capture and then Train a bear for fighting/guarding or even as a mount quite easily. You can do this with Call Animal on the Grizzly Bear at caster level 4 as a druid (learn Wartrain Mount that day as well to ensure that you can get it home to your training area), and the Dire Bear at caster level 7.

[Umbranus]

If you want your companion to fight alongside you I'd think about the eye for talent alternative racial trait.

[Dagada]

Thanks Peterrco, I most certainly was reading the spell description incorrectly. Thank to everyone that posted as well.

Follow up Peterrco (or anyone else please take a crack at it) How does the feat Shaping Focus affect my Wild shaping penalties as a Bear Shaman.

Shaping Focus
Your powers of shapeshifting outstrip your dabbling in the druidic faith.

Prerequisites: Wild shape class feature, Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks.

Benefit: If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild shape ability is calculated as though your druid level were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your character level.

Special: This feat has no effect if you are not a multiclassed druid.

Thanks in advance

[Dagada]

Hello again all!

Anyone have Insight to the bove question about shaping focus?
Upon taking this feat is the -2 penalty from non bear wild shapes completely gone? Not only that but I will also get a bonus to wild shaping (+4 bonus to WS) yes?

Seems like a great feat to get around those shaman penalties.

Wild shape:
At 6th level, a bear shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a bear, she instead uses her druid level + 2.

[Thamius]

Dagada wrote:

Anyone have Insight to the bove question about shaping focus?

Upon taking this feat is the -2 penalty from non bear wild shapes completely gone? Not only that but I will also get a bonus to wild shaping (+4 bonus to WS) yes?

Seems like a great feat to get around those shaman penalties.

Wild shape:
At 6th level, a bear shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a bear, she instead uses her druid level + 2.

I would say NO.

Shaping Focus wrote:

Benefit: If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild shape ability is calculated as though your druid level were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your character level.

Special: This feat has no effect if you are not a multiclassed druid.

It allows your Wild Shape to keep advancing up to four levels while you dip into barbarian, but it doesn't allow you to overcome the penalty to WS you accepted as part of the shaman archetype. If you only dip one level in barbarian as a 9th level character (Barbarian 1/Druid (Bear Shaman) 8), your WS is effectively as a 9th level Bear Shaman, which obviously is still constrained by your archetype. Unless you plan on taking more levels of barbarian it probably isn't worth a feat.