Hello all!
I would like to say I'll get to the meat of the situation, but this could be rather lengthy...
Im starting in a campaign in a couple weeks with 3 other players, and its out first time with Pathfinder, although most of us (including me) are veteran gamers.
Im trying to find exactly what I want (who isnt?) as we'll be trying to take these characters to level 20+
I saw the Witch class and really liked the "idea" of it, although I didnt really care for the Hex mechanic as much, and I think more liked what it represented than what it actually was. Sense then I've been pouring over books, and forums, and I think I've come close to what I want to play...
I really think that Druid is where I need to begin.
I was really hoping you fine folks had some ideas to make my Druid more Witchy...
My DM is pretty lenient when it comes to homebrew when it doesnt tweak with a class to simply make it overpowered, and is even more lenient if he feels your character might mildly cripple himself for RP purposes, granting other boons usually.
Im thinking of ways to trade Wildshape, or other Druid features for witch abilities/spells? Or maybe something totally homebrewed? I know it sounds crazy, but Im mostly just brainstorming.
Any ideas? Druid/Witch, Witch/Druid?
A dark hero, using something less that good to thwart his enemies. Perhaps overly violent, overly cruel, but he justifies himself by only targeting evil people.. Catching my drift? Pickin' up what Im puttin' down? I hope so, cause I keep confusing myself.
Some features I really enjoy. Light Armor, 3/4 BAB, Utility spells, Strange spells (Beguiling Gift +poisoned food/unholy water/ect LOVE IT)..
Anyway, thanks in advance for any ideas you all have.
Ask any questions you have!
Your Poo-Brained Friend,
LastKingDown
I understand right where the OP is coming from.
I would say to take a look at the Menhir Savant and Reincarnated Druid Archetypes (Ult Magic)
MS doesn't alter Wildshape, and Reincarnated still gets it at Level-2, but Shapechanging is definitely a Witch-y type of thing, you don't NEED to use it to be a melee bruiser after all.
Getting a Familiar, either thru a Multi-Class,
or Skill Focus: Knowledge (Any) + Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline) is a good option to add 'Witchy' flavor.
Actually, some of the Animal Domains grant Familiars, and they also expand your spell list in interesting ways regardless if you want their Familiar or not. (Although they grant access to one specific Familiar, Improved Familiar should work normally)
Agree with the Blight Druid suggestion. It is a Druid Archetype found in the Advanced Player's Guide.
Since you said you are not really interested in Hexes, I'm not sure what other Witch class features you would be interested in? If you are just looking for Witch-like spells, you could ask your GM if he'd be willing to swap some of the the Druid and Witch spells around for your character. However, one of the reasons that Witches only have 1/2 BAB as opposed to the Druid's 3/4 BAB is that Witch spells are generally stronger than Druid spells. Arcane casters (Witches, Wizards, Sorcerers) usually have a bigger and overall more versatile selection of spells than Divine casters (Cleric, Druid). Divine casters are balanced out by being more melee-oriented (3/4 BAB and ability to wear armor while casting) and knowing all the spells on their spell list by default.
I would not recommend multi-classing Witch and Druid. Casters are almost always better off taking as many levels in one casting class than trying to mix and match; a small number of high level spells is always going to be stronger and preferable to a larger number of low level spells. Say you are Witch 5/Druid 5. You can cast 3rd level Witch and Druid spells, and your BAB will be +5. However, if you go Druid 10, you will be able to cast 5th level Druid spells and your BAB will be +7. At low levels it may not be too bad, but at higher levels, a multi-classed character can easily be outclassed by a single-classed character.
Oh, to follow up on the Domain thing, besides that some grant Familiars and have non-Druidy bonus spells,
I would consider them for Spontaneous Casting if your GM allows that...
Per RAW that isn't allowed... Unless you take the Storm Druid Archetype (which eventually Spontaneously Casts from 2 Elemental/Weather Domains instead of Summon Nature Ally), but it seems like a pretty reasonable change to ask of a GM, given it's repurcussions are pretty straight forward. With alot of the Domains, that can mean more Enchantments, or just spells that are more interesting than SNA. Even for non-Witchy flavored Druids I get bored with SNA, not because it's a bad series of spells, and you can get creative with how you use Summons, but sometimes you just don't like the flavor of non-stop Summoning bunches of semi-real creatures out of the nether-world.
Between Spontaneous Domain Casting (in place of, not in addition to, Spontaneous SNA) and just choosing spells that feel more Witchy and less Tree Hugger with Anger Management Issues, I think you're well on your way to a Witchy Druid. Have a 12+ INT and invest in some appropriate skills, and I think you can have fun in a role that feels distinctintly different than the normal Druid.
(The Storm Druid Archetype is just about perfect if by 'Witch' you mean 'blast things with hellfire and ice storms from hell')
Thanks for the quick responses! In glad you all know where I'm trying to go with this. I definitely checkout the hyrophant. I'll talk to my DM about what I can tweak. Id u agree a witch without hexes is just a sad wizard, and I don't want to forgo hexes so much, as downplay their roll.. Would you all think that trading Wild Shape for select Witch hexes would be over powered? I really liked the walking hut one lol! Or maybe I'll just try Witch, I just usually enjoy playing the hardier classes, and squishy ones tend to lead to a Me rerolling anyways :p
Crowbar it like this:
Take one level in Witch, the rest in Druid. This grants you access to the Hex class feature. Then take the "Extra Hex" feat multiple times as you go up levels, using your feats to round out your character concept.
That will grant you the witch's familiar, 1st level witch spells, one free hex, cantrips, etc. By the time you're 20th, you'll have half a dozen minor hexes, as well as all the necessary druid feats to make wildshape work well for you.
The problem with this build sticking purely to the core rules, is the save DC for your hexes won't advance with your druid level, so they're going to be pretty ineffective at higher levels. To mitigate this, you might want to stick to hexes that aren't attacking in nature, such as cauldron / etc.
If your GM is willing to bend a few rules for you, then I'd ask for these two things:
1) Allow your witch familiar to be your animal companion,
2) Introduce a feat in the game that allows your other levels to stack with your Witch level for the purposes of establishing Hex DCs.
I think that the witch class as it is with hexes is a pretty great class. I have been playing one in an AP and we are not 4th level and I have a lot of fun with her.
^^this. Witches are very cool. More fun to play than Wizards in my opinion.
Another idea:
I'm playing a character in a game right now who was "kicked out" of the druid lands for being Chaotic Evil, so he's attempting to become similar to a druid through other means. He's a Magus, with the Staff Magus archtype, the Hexcrafter archtype, and the Devotee Of The Green trait. So he looks like a druid, and talks like a druid, but really he's a Hybrid Melee Witch.
I really like your crowbar recommendation, Beej - I /may/ just play a Witch, as I have not done so before - Im just skeptical to get stuck into a boring hex routine or something, as Im aiming for level 20.. Im likely overthinking the entire situation. Thanks again for your guys' great recommendations! I may aim for the Druid19/Witch1 rout, or just go full Witch.. I hadn't thought of looking at Magus before.. Witch/Magus may be right up my ally..
I looked at the Hierophant, and could seriously see myself becoming a powerhouse, which may, or may not be the best thing. Im gonna throw all these ideas in front of my DM and let him choose, so at least if things get wacky I can tell him its his fault :P (j/k)!
Thank again, you guys are great, I never expected such an explosion of aid from these forums - COOKIES FOR EVERYONE, and I love you all so much I'll even give you all the double cookies with the icecream inside :O
I think that swapping wild shape out for hexes is a fine way to handle it if you were interested in doing it that way. I'm not 100% sure that it's 100% balanced in either direction, but it sounds fair at face value. To me at least. Perhaps, as a precaution, offer to take hexes at a slower progression than wild shape, though?
After all my himming and hawing it turns out my DM changed his mind, saying I tend to outshine other players anyways, and have to go the 100% legit rout, so no homebrew. I guess he doesn't want players coming to him every session with "changes" for their characters, which I guess is understandable.. So maybe I'll go full witch with 1 level in a class that gives armor/weapon training, take The Arcane Armor feat (forget what it's called) that allows me to ignore ASP for a minor action, and call it good.. I'll just play my Wytch (the Y looks more masculine to me haha) as a semi melee character, or something. Thanks again for your very fine help :)
Definitely take a long look at Hexcrafter Magus as an alternate to splashing melee with a Witch.
If you want straight or near straight Witch with melee capability, definitely check White Haired Witch as an alternate, or simply crowbar your INT as high as it will go and go with Prehensile Hair.