| Warclam |
It's always been a bit of a pet peeve of mine that potions are made as 'magic items', rather than alchemical formulae. It makes perfect sense for an alchemist to brew up a healing potion, with no magical powers needed. I hunted around the forums a little, but didn't find anything like that. Does anyone have any mechanics for 'mundane' potion-making?
My first instinct is a feat requiring 3 ranks in Craft (alchemy), which allows you to create potions with an alchemy check of 15 + caster level of the potion (15 = base 5 + 5 for not using the spell + 5 for not using Brew Potion). Does that seem too low, or about right?
| Adamantine Dragon |
The problem is that potions are defined as magical items, not alchemical ones.
So what you should be pursuing is what sort of alchemical items an alchemist could make that have potion-like effects. The most logical approach would be to utilize poisons, hallucinogenic drugs, homeopathic curatives, etc.
Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but as a GM I would likely allow a feat to make alchemical items with powerful effects. I'd sit down with the player and work out a set of alchemical "potions" he could make.
| Parka |
I assume when you say "alchemist" you are referring to anyone with the Craft: Alchemy skill, rather than the Alchemist base class (which can brew potions from level 1 onward without any true caster level).
Couple of things to sharpen your vision. Better suggestions can be made after having the answers to these:
1. How do you want the non-magical potions compare to magical varieties cost-wise? Cheaper, more expensive, about the same?
2. Do you simply want them to be able to be made without having spellcaster levels, or do you want them to also do extra stuff, like work in anti-magic fields, hide from Detect Magic and be incapable of being dispelled?
3. Do you want just cure spells, or other sorts of effects besides this? We have Antiplague, Antitoxin and Bloodblock, ordinary alchemical items which seriously help adventurers recover (Bloodblock moreso now that Heal can actually be used to treat Hit Point damage).
| Laurefindel |
I assume when you say "alchemist" you are referring to anyone with the Craft: Alchemy skill, rather than the Alchemist base class (which can brew potions from level 1 onward without any true caster level).
Couple of things to sharpen your vision. Better suggestions can be made after having the answers to these:
1. How do you want the non-magical potions compare to magical varieties cost-wise? Cheaper, more expensive, about the same?
2. Do you simply want them to be able to be made without having spellcaster levels, or do you want them to also do extra stuff, like work in anti-magic fields, hide from Detect Magic and be incapable of being dispelled?
3. Do you want just cure spells, or other sorts of effects besides this? We have Antiplague, Antitoxin and Bloodblock, ordinary alchemical items which seriously help adventurers recover (Bloodblock moreso now that Heal can actually be used to treat Hit Point damage).
+1 to Parka
Potions are spells-in-a-bottle, caster level, selected effects and all.
Nothing prevents you from creating potion-like alchemical tonics and substances like the antitoxin that have effects similar to a spell but with no caster level and limited use.
... alternatively...
You could find a skill check DC that is an equivalent to spell level. Lets say DC 15 is equivalent to a 1st level spell, a DC 20 = 2nd level spell and DC 25 is the equivalent of a 3rd level spell. These assume the minimal caster level to cast the spell, but you can voluntarily raise the DC by 5 to up the caster level by 2.
- take the Brew Potion Feat (houserule it to bypass the spellcasting prerequisite)
- pay 50% of market price in raw materials
- Substitute casting of the spell with a Craft (alchemy) check.
- keep potion formulae in a recipe-book akin to a wizard's spellbook.
'findel
| StarSlayer |
I still like to think that potions are alchemical mixtures. A scroll that does mass healing makes sense, but an invisible PC or even a hireling standing out of the way chugging potions of mass cure to keep the fighters going sounds wrong.
In the last game I ran we used a system like oblivion where we collected items to make potions. It seemed to work well (I didn't make the players account for weight, only keep track of quanties.)
| MagiMaster |
The only way potions as written make in-universe sense is if they're literally spells-in-a-bottle. That is, the wizard makes a standard alchemical mixture and then casts a spell on it, storing that spell for later. That doesn't really fit with a lot of the fantasy literature that most games are based on though.
Another option for changing this would be to allow the Master Craftsman feat to work with Brew Potion.
| Parka |
I still like to think that potions are alchemical mixtures. A scroll that does mass healing makes sense, but an invisible PC or even a hireling standing out of the way chugging potions of mass cure to keep the fighters going sounds wrong.
In the last game I ran we used a system like oblivion where we collected items to make potions. It seemed to work well (I didn't make the players account for weight, only keep track of quanties.)
As long as it worked for your group, good. It might be of interest to post details of what you did for other people thinking about doing the same thing.
Just a note, I'm not sure the Mass Cure X spells work as potions, since the strongest potion that can be made is 3rd level. Also, the drinker doesn't get to make any choices about the spell, and the crafter can't know who's in the area to target, so it's likely all the healing in such a potion would either get dumped on the drinker or spread willy-nilly among everyone in 30 feet.
So that problem you have with potions doesn't actually need to exist, at least.
| Goth Guru |
New feat, Chemistry. Note that Ringers lactate would cure ability point damage due to blood loss. Adrenalin would be a high difficulty to make. You would have to inject it. You would have to eat a full meal immediately afterward or take 6D6 internal damage. I'm not a doctor, so any input from medical professionals is welcome.