So in 3rd edition there is a monster called a Wood Woad (Monster Manual III I believe) that, among other things, has the ability to step in and out of trees (including teleporting to other trees nearby), as I believe a free action. If the players were jumped by a group of these who were popping in and out of trees and then attacking, how would you treat the wood woads' attacks? Are they treated as being invisible? Does their stepping out of the tree, and being visible at that point, just before attacking remove any such bonuses they might gain? Would you treat the players as flat-footed?
I feel like the ability to disappear from one spot and reappear elsewhere just before attacking should confer some sort of benefit, but I'm not sure what that benefit should be.
I would grant them some/all of the dimensional agility feat line from ultimate combat. Change it so it works with their tree walking.
I feel like the ability to disappear from one spot and reappear elsewhere just before attacking should confer some sort of benefit, but I'm not sure what that benefit should be.
You mean, like the spell blink does? I would say that you should be able to approximate it with that spell effect if the party are in heavily wooded terrain. Outside of it, not so much.
I don't follow you. You're suggesting I change the way the wood woad's ability works to function like the Dimensional feats?
I suppose I'd have a similar question regarding those as well; if you disappear and reappear elsewhere, does that confer any direct combat bonuses? On the part of the wood woads, they could be hiding in a tree for a round before stepping out. Would that change how you treat the situation? Would you treat them as having attacked from hiding?
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I'm not sure I'd give them the ability to catch opponents flat-footed all the time. I think it would be more appropriate to treat it like a blink spell. If the ability doesn't specify that it allows them to catch players flat-footed (or, since you can only be caught flat-footed at the start of a combat, deny them their dex) I wouldn't apply that hefty a penalty. They could teleport to a tree out of sight to gain concealment from the players, then pop back in the next round to gain those benefits. That, or you could let them use the sniping rules (in the Stealth skill description) with a bonus.
I feel like the ability to disappear from one spot and reappear elsewhere just before attacking should confer some sort of benefit, but I'm not sure what that benefit should be.You mean, like the spell blink does? I would say that you should be able to approximate it with that spell effect if the party are in heavily wooded terrain. Outside of it, not so much.
For Blink, the attacker is still attacking from the same place, and is visible. I'm talking about stepping into a tree, then stepping out of another one 30 ft. away and attacking. The player being attacked wouldn't know where the attack is coming from until the monster stepped out of the tree.
Would you allow Stealth to be used with the exiting the tree action if it isn't a move action equivalent?
I think Stealth is good, but it doesn't help much unless you have sneak attack. Maybe just use Stealth and opposed Perception checks to give those attacking from cover a bonus, but I wouldn't say that once the PCs know they are under attack they will be flat-footed easily.
I think Stealth is good, but it doesn't help much unless you have sneak attack. Maybe just use Stealth and opposed Perception checks to give those attacking from cover a bonus, but I wouldn't say that once the PCs know they are under attack they will be flat-footed easily.
That's partly my thinking, but the action is similar to turning invisible and walking elsewhere on the battlefield, then appearing just before you make your attack, rather than just after. Giving the bonuses for invisibility seems steep, but I feel like SOMETHING should be included, but maybe I'm over-thinking this.
It would certainly make setting up flanking a little easier, but other than that...I don't know. I was thinking about giving them rogue levels, but I think the real issue they'll have will be landing attacks, and in my mind, they don't seem very roguish to me, more like rangers or fighters.
I would treat it as if they were invisible prior to attacking, although you might lower the bonus to stealth rolls. Assuming wood woads are stealthy to begin with, you're basically going to force your players to ready actions to strike at them as they pop out unless they can reliably beat the stealth roll with perception. And if they don't kill the wood woads in 1 shot then likely the encounter will end in stalemate as the woads are going to realize they can't do anything to the PCs without getting creamed themselves, and run away (perhaps to return later?).
I did something similar with quicklings (gave each of them a level in ranger and rogue) who used their stealth and movement to dart in and out of underbrush via spring attack to good effect until the party got wise to the tactic.
I don't follow you. You're suggesting I change the way the wood woad's ability works to function like the Dimensional feats?
I suppose I'd have a similar question regarding those as well; if you disappear and reappear elsewhere, does that confer any direct combat bonuses? On the part of the wood woads, they could be hiding in a tree for a round before stepping out. Would that change how you treat the situation? Would you treat them as having attacked from hiding?
I'm suggesting you take the benefit of the dimensional feats, and allow the wood woads to use it when tree stepping.
I don't personally believe this should catch players flat footed.
It opens up a very slippery slope. take a monk with the aformentioned dimensional agility feats. He can attack after dimension dooring. Would you allow him to catch every one of your monsters flat footed?
As long as the answer is consistent, that's fine.
Honestly, the Dimensional line of feats' descriptions leave much to be desired. Yes, being able to teleport and attack as a charge instead of actually running over that ground is a benefit, but is it worth 2 feats? It might be, but I'd be wondering what effect if any teleporting before attacking had there, too.
What bonus is granted for attacking from stealth? The skill says you can't attack while hiding, and Sniping only covers trying to hide again after making the attack, and doesn't indicate whether you catch someone flat-footed or not, or if it has any benefit other than not being detected. The idea of being attacked by an invisible creature is that the defender can't properly defend themselves from an attack they don't know is coming, or from where.
Both sorts of teleportation attacks seem like they would be following that same logic, unless the split second of visibility before making the attack is enough to warrant characters not suffering any penalties.