Goblin Squad Member
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I realize the PFO is not going to have the actual classes as in PF. I actually like that we will have additional freedom to mix and match skills and abilities. But, one of my favourite aspects of PF was how they rebuilt the core classes...especially with the class variants.
Please find a way to work this system in as much as possible. Give us the variety of class features to really make our characters "unique".
How this could work: We already have mention of the existence of the "archetypes" which I have assumed will be roughly based upon the core classes. After building a skill tree(s) for each archetype, just build in the optional replacements. They could be mutually exclusive, but I really do not see why a player could not be allowed to slow their progression down by half and pursue two paths.
Example:
Bards will have a Bardic Performance skill tree they can add "point(s)" or progress in (as illustrated here). Archaeologist is a bard variant class that replaces Bardic Performance with a different set of skills which can be made into a similar skill tree. These two trees could be made available in parallel. Players who only want to progress toward the cap skill will choose only one of these branches. (Alternately, I will be happy if either is possible, so I am not against making them exclusive. Although I do not see why a player who has progressed down one path cannot could no go back and then learn the other as well.)
Please, please...variety is what will make our characters feel more unique...and hence more "ours".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Agreed Skwiziks. Although if these branches are exclusive I can see those who have passed the decision nodes upset about the choices they did not have. And I hope they do not allow "resets"...as long as there are not exclusive it will not bother me if they add more choices later.
So, refining the idea, making them additional non-exclusive trees/branches will allow more character customization and allow additional new variants (in the form of additional sub-trees) to be added as they are developed... without requiring skill tree resets.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I remember once I created a character class and got my DM to accept it that was prettymuch a ranger but instead of a nature based ranger it was more of a man-hunter who's more nature centered abilities were replaced with abilities that made him more easily able to track people down in an urban environment. For instance his animal companion was a domesticated bloodhound and I know I replaced one of the ranger class skills with gather information. I may have dropped spell-casting entirely.
Anyway you get my point. A like the idea of a little variance within a class.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Urban Ranger (at the bottom of the page) is one of the official variants that I am asking to be included. In all the variants it lists the new abilities of the variant and what they replace...those would just be alternate branches in the progression tree.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah I remember that class. I didn't like it that much because I felt the changes didn't go deep enough. For instance Gather Information still was not a class skill which I really felt it should be for an Urban Ranger.
So I made my own and had the DM approve it. I love how P&P is adaptable like that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is as good a time as any to reiterate my request that I be able to make my Wizard a Divination specialist Scroll Scholar.
I think it would be extremely important to avoid mutually exclusive branches. I think a much better way to handle it would be to give straight penalties to some other branch or skill, rather than prohibiting that branch or skill entirely.
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Yeah I remember that class. I didn't like it that much because I felt the changes didn't go deep enough. For instance Gather Information still was not a class skill which I really felt it should be for an Urban Ranger.
So I made my own and had the DM approve it. I love how P&P is adaptable like that.
Gather information is a class skill, its a use of diplomacy now
Gather Information: Using Diplomacy to gather information takes 1d4 hours of work, searching for rumors and informants.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You know one thing that would be good to mention here is I would love to see some paladin variants more than just lawful good. I know this suggestion would include a chaotic evil anti-paladin but I've also heard of some things like the chaotic good paladin of freedom. Or the more neutral-good Grey Guard.(I know the description says lawful good but the actions described sound neutral good to me.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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As a long-time Paladin, and a Paladin at heart, I wholeheartedly support this.
I think that any deity which is involved in trying to shape the world should empower Paladins of that deity, regardless of alignment.
Although, I would prefer the name "Paladin" to be reserved for those of Lawful Good alignment.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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As a long-time Paladin, and a Paladin at heart, I wholeheartedly support this.
I think that any deity which is involved in trying to shape the world should empower Paladins of that deity, regardless of alignment.
Although, I would prefer the name "Paladin" to be reserved for those of Lawful Good alignment.
Can we find 8 synonyms for paladin, and give each alignment a different name for the same class?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do understand that GW is not making a PF ruleset game...rather a PF GOlarion game. This just happens to be one of the best parts of PF for me...and is therefore one of the features which defines PF for me.
Since all the abilities come with descriptions, rough approximations of the functions can be used, no matter the nature of the actual mechanics of the game.
+1
I especially like the mention of the archaeologist. Singing in battle versus doing something useful will be the difference between my character approving of you or killing you on sight.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do mean archetypes, thank you for making my choice of words more accurate. However, try googling "Pathfinder Class Variants" and you will see many people refer to them as I did. Example:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/richard-s-lab/class-vari ants
I will attempt to use the term with the greatest social momentum from now on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think this would be good expansion material, rather than something in the core game
I think as much of the class related stuff that can be crammed into the original package is good, seeing as how long it will take to build a character. People who spent a year developing their character won't be super happy to see base classes they would have rather played released a year after they started.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think this would be good expansion material, rather than something in the core gameI think as much of the class related stuff that can be crammed into the original package is good, seeing as how long it will take to build a character. People who spent a year developing their character won't be super happy to see base classes they would have rather played released a year after they started.
Exactly. That was my thought too. If they add an archetype I would have rather have played after a year, I will go back and it will take me 3.5 years to get to cap. Of course, I would much rather it be added later than not at all...
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Goblin Squad Member
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"Archetype" already has a definite meaning in PFO, and it's closer to "base class" than to "class variant".
Maybe "alternate archetype" would be more descriptive?
But just in case GW isn't clear on what we're talking about, I would dearly love to see the Wizard Archetypes included with the initial release of PFO.
I would be quite content if these were simply implemented as optional skills within the Wizard Archetype. In fact, I hope that there are a lot of optional (i.e. not required to reach Capstone) skills in each Archetype.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am hoping that the alternate archetypes aren't actually mutually exclusive, but rather that the skills they offer can be trained optionally, so that you could try out Scroll Scholar for a bit, then switch over to Spellslinger if you thought that would be more fun, without actually losing the training you've done in Scroll Scholar.
Goblinworks Founder
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I think it was Dragon Magazine or similar that had optional Paladins. Ones that summoned Elementals instead of their celestial horse and so on ( I had a Celestial Lion as a mount). I'm all for the variant classes, that really delve into what you are looking for in a character.
Skills would be the start of it and as you get to a certain point, and option opens up for you to choose if you would like to go down that path. If not continue with your skill gain till the next one opens that you were looking for.
That's why I liked PnP how I could make almost any kind of story or fix a class to the way I want it to look at them with DM approval.
The Bard that had high ranks of Use Magic Device so he could use any scroll or wand - he was the guy who had something for any situation.