Okay, I have done a conversion of the Warmage, but I am still not completely satisfied with the spell list.
What do you suggest to added to the following list? What spells do I have that you think should be removed?
0-level: Acid Splash; Arcane Mark; Bleed; Dancing Lights; Detect Magic; Detect Poison; Flare; Know Direction; Light; Mage Hand; Mending; Message; Prestidigitation; Read Magic
1st-level: Burning Hands; Color Spray; Create Water; Grease; Magic Missile; Magic Weapon; Mount; Obscuring Mist; Shield; Shocking Grasp; Sleep; True Strike
2nd-level: Entangle; Faerie Fire; Flaming Sphere; Fog Cloud; Glitterdust; Gust of Wind; Make Whole; Protection from Arrows; Pass without Trace; Pyrotechnics; Resist Energy; Scorching Ray; Shatter; Whispering Wind
3rd-level: Daylight; Deep Slumber; Dispel Magic; Fireball; Flame Arrow; Fly; Greater Magic Weapon; Haste; Lightning Bolt; Phantom Steed; Rage; Sleet Storm; Slow; Stinking Cloud
4th-level Black Tentacles; Confusion; Create Food & Water; Crushing Despair; Fear; Good Hope; Hallucinatory Terrain; Ice Storm; Shout; Solid Fog; Wall of Fire; Wall of Ice
5th-level: Cloudkill; Cone of Cold; Fabricate; Mirage Arcana; Sending; Telekinesis; Teleport; Wall of Force; Wall of Stone; Waves of Fatigue
6th-level: Acid Fog; Freezing Sphere; Greater Command; Greater Dispel Magic; Move Earth; Undeath to Death; Wall of Iron
7th-level: Blade Barrier; Delayed Blast Fireball; Mage’s Sword; Prismatic Spray; Reverse Gravity; Waves of Exhaustion
8th-level: Greater Shout; Horrid Wilting; Incendiary Cloud; Prismatic Wall; Sunburst
9th-level: Earthquake; Firestorm; Meteor Swarm; Wail of the Banshee; Whirlwind
Now, what I want to build a class that is designed for WAR. Spells that either (a) deal area of effect damage, (b) provide utility on the field of battle, or (c) deal with the logistics of a small army.
I am keeping with spells that are part of Pathfinder--so that means many spells on the original 3.5 Complete Arcane list aren't on the list above. None of the Orb or Lesser Orb spells, for example, among others.
There are few spells on the list that don't fit, such as read magic, magic missile, scorching ray, dispel magic, etc., etc. I included these because they are capable of targeting multiple individuals (magic missile and scorching ray) or because they are the basic tools of any spell-caster.
I would appreciate any suggestions you fellows might have. Thanks in advance.
Master Arminas
|
Ok so you are not working on a conversion then. The original Warmage was 3.5s attempt at making a glass cannon less glass and more cannon. Evocation only spells a few illusion damaging spells were allowed but your spell list is littered with illusion conjuration and transmutation spells. It seems to me you are attempting to create a battle mage of sorts. Do you remember the prc for arcane casters that allowed them to cast while wearing armor. I see you as attempting to make a base class out of that prc.
I would read
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20051018a
It goes over what a Warmage was and is. If you have decided to create a class that picks the cream of the crop spells and shove them all onto one spontaneous casting list then you have done a decent job. Almost all of my favorite spells made your cut.
if you take your current spell list give it to a character that is allowed to spontaneously cast any of them without prep, while learning to wear heavy armor over time then my friend you have just (IMO) replaced the need for sorcerers this spell list is nice.
If I were you id step back and think to myself. "am I building a class I would want to play or one that is balanced" I find myself building classes with every skill and ability I want while cutting out the fluff streamlining the character and thinking since it’s so focused it must be balanced. This is not true however.
I would suggest picking what this guy is supposed to do. If he is the battlefield commander take away his nukes and give him crowd control and buffs. If he is cannon limit him to a few crowd control spells that he can access at level 1 and 2 then no more. Give the class UMD and you will not be completely gimping them. Make sure at each level you include a variety of damaging spells taking into account things like range, area, shape, damage type, and extra effects.
If Warmage is your goal id does something like this for class building:
1. Every 5 levels allow them to improve their armor they can wear light<medium<heavy.
2. Allow them to cast while wielding a shield
3. Allow them to pick a martial weapon every other level that they become proficient in. This does not allow them to gain proficient in all martial and gain access to prcs easily but its allows them to use more weapons.
4. 3/4 BAB progression with touch spells this will be a HUGE boon.
5. Allow them to gain a free metamagic feat at levels 4, 8,12,16,20 this makes them the fighter equivalent of a caster.
6. I would like to see something like "x times per day you can apply a metamagic feat to a spell you are casting without increasing the casting time."
7. At every odd level you may pick an evocation spell from another class that did not appear on your spell list. This means they can pick up black light, wall of force, and a few other utility spells that really make up for your "cannon" class build.
8. Limit base spells to evocation only. this will be a small list so you need to reference the other pathfinder source books to find new spells( APG, CRB, inner sea, maybe campaign settings) a few exception can be made id give them grease, haste, light, detect magic, read magic,
9. Warmage edge was a really cool ability adds your Int modifier to your damage of all Warmage spells you cast.
10. They should be on a sorcerer progression for spells every even level.
11. Charisma based as all spontaneous casters seem to be.
12. I’d say d8 hit dice but you could try to argue d10. (D8 would be better though)
13. 2+int mod skill points.
14. Skill list: intimidate, fly, knowledge (arcana, engineering,), perception, ride, spell craft, use magic device. Throw in profession, and craft to round out the skills list.
15. No alignment restrictions.
16. Also have them casting spells at (sorcerer+1) times per day. One extra casting just makes since on a focused character like this.
Sorry this is so long I used to play a Warmage and I'd like to see them done right.
My advice? Eldritch Conduit, Greater Eldritch Conduit, and Blast Barrier from Inner Sea Magic. Outside of that, a few spells that cause creatures or things to Catch On fire. After that, drop this spell. Firefall.
To quote:
Firefall causes a fire to erupt into a geyser of dazzlingly bright liquid flame. The spell uses one fire source, which is immediately extinguished. A fire larger than a 20-foot cube is only partly extinguished. Magical fires are not extinguished, but a creature of the fire subtype used as the source takes 1 point of damage per caster level (no Saving Throw).
The coruscating rain of fire fills a hemispherical burst with a radius of 60 feet. All creatures and objects in the area take 5d6 points of fire damage and catch on fire.
Creatures who make successful Reflex saves take half damage and don't catch on fire. Creatures within 120 feet of the original fire source are blinded for 1d4+1 rounds (Will negates).
Emphasis mine. This means that the fire source could even be a CANDLE for such an effect. War parties, and especially any army currently laying siege, are most definitely going to have a fire source SOMEWHERE. One application of this spell will wreak havoc in a small area. Repeated casting of this spell across a battlefield will raise so much hell I'm damned sure half the enemy army would break ranks and be routed.
Something like that definitely needs to make it onto the spell list of any caster built for pure WAR. I know my Half-Orc pyromaniac sorcerer used it to VERY great effect.
If it isnt an Evocation spell and does anything other than cause damage... get rid of it.
Thats a warmage.
No CC. No Utility. Just Damage.
my suggestion would be to seriously cut that spelllist, leave only 2-3 per spell-lvl, as others said that should be damage only spells.
Add 1 (or very very few) other spells known that can be cherry picked with a few restriction.
Then add free metamagic like reach (scaling with lvls) and widen, perhaps play with intensified so that fireball stays good for all his career, then you can lower his spells per day, or give him a lot more low lvl spells as they get intensified.
So in short, he should have a truly awesome, army-killing fireball, but altough controller spells (black tentacles) would be useful to help your army, he should be a straightforward mass damage dealer in my opinion.
Of course if you want a controller or mass buffer that can also be done, but if you mix it with mass-damage dealer then you can just aswell take a standard wizard.
I will work on this; thanks guys!
MA
Warmages DID have more spells known than Sorcerers.
Me?
I'd have the Exact number of spells known the origonal Warmage had.
Replace any 3.5 spells that didn't transfer over with PF Evocation or Blasty Conjuration spells.
Other than that keep the class the same as 3.5, except Warmage edge should be replaced with The Orc Bloodline Arcana.
Eg why isn't Burning Arc (lvl2) and Ball lightning (lvl 4) and dragons breath on the list.
Blacklight and Boneshatter should be there as well.
I believe that the disconnect arises from how I view Warmages, gentlemen. They are not merely blasters, they are Masters of War and should have spells appropriate to that effect. Here is the text from Complete Arcane that introduced us to the Warmage.
Graduates of special arcane war colleges, those known as warmages are drilled only and utterly in the casting of spells most useful for laying down destruction, confusing an enemy, or screening an allied action.
Sounds pretty nifty, right? But the spell list itself does not accomplish these goals. Let’s look at the original Warmage spell list.
0-level spells: Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Light, Ray of Frost
1st-level spells: Accuracy*, Burning Hands, Chill Touch*, Fist of Stone*, Hail of Stone, Magic Missile, Lesser Orb of Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire/Sonic*, Shocking Grasp*, True Strike*
2nd-level spells: Acid Arrow*, Blades of Fire*, Continual Flame*, Fire Trap, Fireburst, Flaming Sphere, Ice Knife, Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray, Shatter*, Whirling Blade
3rd-level spells: Fire Shield*, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Gust of Wind, Ice Storm, Lightning Bolt, Poison*, Ring of Blades, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud
4th-level spells: Blast of Flame, Black Tentacles, Contagion*, Orb of Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire/Sonic*, Phantasmal Killer*, Shout, Wall of Fire
5th-level spells: Arc of Lightning, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Mass Fire Shield, Greater Fireburst, Flame Strike, Prismatic Ray
6th-level spells: Acid Fog, Blade Barrier, Chain Lightning, Circle of Death, Disintegrate*, Fire Seeds, Freezing Sphere, Transformation*
7th-level spells: Delayed Blast Fireball, Earthquake, Finger of Death*, Fire Storm, Mage's Sword*, Prismatic Spray, Sunbeam, Waves of Exhaustion
8th-level spells: Horrid Wilting, Incendiary Cloud, Polar Ray*, Prismatic Wall, Scintillating Pattern, Greater Shout, Sunburst
9th-level spells: Elemental Swarm, Implosion, Meteor Swarm, Prismatic Sphere, Wail of the Banshee, Weird
Spells marked with an asterisk (*) are personal or apply to a single target only.
Laying down destruction: The 3.5 CA Warmage has this in spades. His selection of area-of-effect damaging spells is outstanding and covers every possible contingency. I have always been perplexed, however, at the inclusion of so many single-target spells on the list. To me, a Warmage is about area of effects that are useful on a battlefield, not a spell (no matter how powerful or damaging) that targets a single creature.
Confusing an enemy: Utter fail. There is but one single spell on the list that meets this condition Scintillating Pattern; a spell that the Warmage does not receive until 16th level. There are two fear effects, but both of them are save-or-dies (phantasmal killer and weird). Maybe the enemy is confused because the Warmage cannot confuse him? Wait, what?
Screening an Allied Action: Three spells in total. Stinking Cloud, Wall of Fire, and Prismatic Wall. Where are spells like move earth (useful for digging trenches and constructing berms [a mound or wall of earth and sand, for those who do not know]), the various wall spells, any of the fog spells, or other illusions (other than Scintillating Pattern, which doesn’t screen but confuses, stuns, and/or renders the enemy unconscious).
In a similar fashion, where are the basic tools of any arcanists trade? Detect magic, read magic, dispel magic, and greater dispel magic, amongst others?
In my vision of the Warmage, he isn’t just a cannon—he is actually an Arcanist built for War. He has area-of-effect spells in all different flavors, he has walls and clouds that his allies can take position behind and use to screen themselves from opposing troops, he can cast spells that confuse and confound the enemy. And more than that, he has a small number of spells that aid his own men: he can create water, create food, summon steeds for them to ride (both real and illusory), he can mask their presence, he can alter the very earth to create moats and rudimentary fortifications.
He does not, and he should not, have single-target damaging spells. Why? Because he isn’t a sniper or a precision-guided munition homing in on a specific target. No, gentlemen, the Warmage isn’t a B-2 stealth bomber with laser-guided JDAMs, he is an old B-52 BUFF (Big Ugly Fat F*****) that drops three hundred 250-lb. bombs on a target the size of six football fields and calls it a day.
Anyway, that is how I see the Warmage and his spells.
Master Arminas
Well you can see the Warmage that way. It even makes sense. But at this point you might as well rename it and say you used the Warmage as insperation. Because if you add a utility and CC to his spell list he is a new class.
You have to understand that the Beguiler was suppose to be the CC/Utility expert with the same casting mechanic as a Warmage. And why shield? That has nothing to do with the 3 things you listed. It was one of the major drawbacks of a Warmage. Limited Defensive spellcasting.
Dont get me wrong. I like your class (other than the Warmage edge), but its got a different feel then a Warmage if you give him all those spells... not to mention increasing the power of the class by alot.
Just my opinion though.
Shield should probably go. I agree with that.
Master Arminas
ok, so if I get you right you want big AoE damage, big AoE control/confusing, and "screening an allied action" (sorry, I really don't know what that means so I'll skip it, excuse mistakes). You're not buffer (haste, magic weapon), nore a general helper (detect poison, wall of iron) nore a sniper (shocking grasp, magic missile) and probably not specialized against some creatures (daylight).
so my suggestion similar to before:
keep only those spells that fit that description, best examples: fireball and black tentacles So they should have some reach and some area, as mages often stand on a cliff while the war is below them (or so I imagine it at least). I would even skip spells that target less or exactly 1 creature/lvl as taking out 8 soldiers isn't really that amazing when compared to a fireball.
Skip most self-buffs and utility like summoning horses, you will march just as slow as other soldiers. If you really need a horse then the army will provide, it's better than you lacking a damage spell when needed.
To make up for that serious lack of diversified spells add free metamagics like reach/widen/intensified, perhaps a pool of points per spell like you can go up to (+3 when picked of those 3 without modifying spell level at lvl 10). Perhaps even stuff like maximized but only a few times per day.
So if you could just clarify what screening allied action means, I can only find a meaning that would make sense for ennemies.
Screening allied forces: providing cover and/or concealment (as in a smoke screen), placing a buffer between two groups of combatents (as in a cavalry screen that observes the enemy and can provide early warning in case of a movement towards your main body), using terrain or other features to shield your movements from enemy sight (as in advancing along the ridge using it to screen you movement from the enemy), among other cases.
I consider daylight an area of effect spell that while it does not deal damage does allow for fighting at night or in conditions of dim lighting without penalty. Wall of iron (heck, all of the wall spells) are screening per se. Haste I could get rid of, as well as fly.
Perhaps communal mount and communal phantom steed instead?
Master Arminas
Dont neglect the option of having half-matches and others at higher level than normal. Dispel magic as level 4, for example. Try to keep to long-range and/or large area spells, entangle fits better than grease.
Can't see the whole class due to phone, but what if you gave a base selection of blasts and then three "domains" where you choose one; shaper (walls, entangle & co, fogs, rock to mud & co), controller (antimagics, mass debuffs) and support (mass buffs, limited summoning, magic weapon).