Some feats are so mundane, or so essential that everyone should get them just for sitting down at the table.
Heighten Spell: If we imagine each wizard spell as a very specific effect with a very specific forcefulness, I guess I can see why wizards might not be able to just boost their DCs by using higher spell slots. But I could argue it both ways. For wizards. For other casters? If I want to blow a high level slot on a lower level spell, why shouldn’t the DC be that much higher? Frankly, I don’t see the point in keeping this feat a feat just for the wizard.
Power Attack: [And sundry feats that effectively trade AB for damage.] This becomes a necessary feat at higher levels, due to HP inflation, and the way that AB outpaces AC. If you need an in-game reason to wrap your head around, well, anyone can take a reckless swing right? Right.
Trapfinding: Okay, not a feat, but still very much in the “shouldn’t be” category. Blowing two skill points per level to keep two skills maxed out isn’t enough to even attempt defeating any bizarre trap my DM might throw at me? I need a special class gimmick too? This is like if every monster of 5 HD or higher had “Damage Reduction: Must be a 1st level fighter to bypass.” It’s niche protection taken too far.
Weapon Finesse: I need special training just to aim with my...aim, rather than with brute force? With light weapons only? Get real. Get game! This isn’t a powerful feat; this is a necessary feat for many characters. At least PF doesn’t screw rogues out of WF for two levels, but it’s still a feat slot lost for no good reason.
Comments? Criticism? Disbelief? :)
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Finesse- agreed
Trapfinding- needs tweeking but makes a use for rogues sadly their only use.
Power attack- maybe have a base of 1/4 like PF for free and have a feat improve the ratio. 1/2 or 1/3 maybe.
Heighten spell- is really good for Sorc. and Wiz get bonus feats to spend. Should be a feat. Maybe have a heighten tree.
Trapfinding- needs tweeking but makes a use for rogues sadly their only use.
You mean trapfinding is the only thing that rogues do well in your group?
Heighten spell- is really good for Sorc. and Wiz get bonus feats to spend. Should be a feat. Maybe have a heighten tree.
How do you mean?
Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus: I have no problem with them costing feat slots to acquire, but why are fighter-only abilities on the feats table?
I know, right? I kinda think AD&D had the right idea here: the Focus tree should just be a fighter feature. Possibly with the warblade's retraining feature thrown in too.
Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus: I have no problem with them costing feat slots to acquire, but why are fighter-only abilities on the feats table?I know, right? I kinda think AD&D had the right idea here: the Focus tree should just be a fighter feature.
This is basically what I did in my games. I removed the fighter only requirement from the focus/specialization feats. I also gave the fighter another set of bonus feats that had to spent on weapon feats (EWP, (Greater) Weapon Focus, (Greater) Weapon Specialization, Improved Crit, etc.)
Sounds cool, although I'd be worried about raging barbarians with the entire Focus chain. But maybe that's just me.
Sounds cool, although I'd be worried about raging barbarians with the entire Focus chain. But maybe that's just me.
Well if those are the best they can find for their feat choices ...
Sounds cool, although I'd be worried about raging barbarians with the entire Focus chain. But maybe that's just me.Well if those are the best they can find for their feat choices ...
You're probably right. I guess there's just something about one character with two long-term stackable features that rubs me the wrong way. (Well, a feature and a series of bonuses that should be a feature.)
I house rule Weapon Finesse as a "base" ability for the "martial" classes.
What I don't like about the heighten spell feat is when PCs want to use it with another metamagic feat. Then get upset when I only allow it if they use spell slot at least one level higher then the other metamagic feat requires.
Also I don't like that wizards can only select spell mastery, metamagic and item creation feats for their bonus feats. Why can't they get spell focus or skill focus (in spellcaster related skills like spellcraft or knowledge or craft alchemy).
As a house rule we allow dodge to be a +1 bonus to AC against all opponents. It's easier logistically and makes the feat more useful without being to overbalanced.
The +2 to two skills are all a waste of a feat. It's not enough of a bonus to be worth a feat and I don't know that there is a solution that will save these feats.
I also hate the feats designed specifically for prestige classes or special races. They are rarely worth taking except as a requirement for a prestige class. A lot of the time they are unbalanced or just a waste of a feat. An example of this is the Destructive Rage feat required to be a Frenzied Berserker. Is a +8 STR bonus to destroy objects really worth a feat?
I house rule Weapon Finesse as a "base" ability for the "martial" classes.
Does any non-caster qualify as martial, or do you need full BAB? What about martial casters, like the duskblade?
What I don't like about the heighten spell feat is when PCs want to use it with another metamagic feat. Then get upset when I only allow it if they use spell slot at least one level higher then the other metamagic feat requires.
You mean you've had players try to 'piggyback' Heighten to get a two-for-one cost? Lame. Also, explicitly not allowed.
Also I don't like that wizards can only select spell mastery, metamagic and item creation feats for their bonus feats. Why can't they get spell focus or skill focus (in spellcaster related skills like spellcraft or knowledge or craft alchemy).
Yeah it is pretty silly. I treat all feat lists as suggestions; a player wants something not on the list, he can take it! Even if it's a wizard picking up something totally inappropriate like dodge...well, what of it? I don't know why a wizard would want to, but it's his feat.
As a house rule we allow dodge to be a +1 bonus to AC against all opponents. It's easier logistically and makes the feat more useful without being to overbalanced.
Agreed.
The +2 to two skills are all a waste of a feat. It's not enough of a bonus to be worth a feat and I don't know that there is a solution that will save these feats.
If anyone ever wanted to take skill focus or one of those two-for feats, I'd probably scale the bonus with level.
I also hate the feats designed specifically for prestige classes or special races. They are rarely worth taking except as a requirement for a prestige class. A lot of the time they are unbalanced or just a waste of a feat. An example of this is the Destructive Rage feat required to be a Frenzied Berserker. Is a +8 STR bonus to destroy objects really worth a feat?
Agreed. Personally I don't see much use for PrCs in the first place. Players usually take them just for some ability or other, which I'd rather convert to feats or ACFs.
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Trapfinding- needs tweeking but makes a use for rogues sadly their only use.You mean trapfinding is the only thing that rogues do well in your group?
How do you mean?
Heighten spell- is really good for Sorc. and Wiz get bonus feats to spend. Should be a feat. Maybe have a heighten tree.
1- yes
2- spontanious casters are amazing with heighten and wizards get extra feats so its not really a tax. A tree like power attack or dodge a feat that requires heighten spell as a prereq. Spell perfection i think is one.
All those piddly +2-to-two-skills feats: They aren't worth a feat slot, either. A +4 to skill points is worth a feat slot. Make that feat instead and you're good to go.
That feat does exist in one of the "complete" books, I just forget which one, and don't want to look it up.
Also, since a lot of you are talking about scaling feats (improved dodge, etc.), you guys might want to take a look at Iron Heroes. The feat mastery system is a very interesting way of doing things
Allowing a fighter to take Weapon Finesse and lose additional damage when attacking with a Two Handed Weapon is an even trade. Otherwise, blow the feat. Fighting finesse style is a very learned thing for most beings.
The skill focus feats in PF DO increase to +4 at 10th. I just wish the save feats did too.
+4 to a skill exist as some level 1 only feats in some non-core books, or as very specialized uses of a skill (Combat Casting and Improved Init come to mind).
IN PF, The Weapon Focus tree should be Weapon Focus: You gain +1 to Hit with a specific weapon, or double your Weapon training Bonuses from class levels. Bing. Fighter only feat, one feat, scales with level.
Dodge does grant a +1 bonus to AC against everyone. There's a similar feat that grants +1 to nat Ac, too. And +1 to Shield AC, and to Armor AC. +1 to AC from a feat seems to be the standard for PF as a basic low level feat.
There is a feat which grants 5 skill points per taking it, but that's not the same as +4 to a skill, in 3.5.
==Aelryinth
1- yesTrapfinding- needs tweeking but makes a use for rogues sadly their only use.You mean trapfinding is the only thing that rogues do well in your group?
To be fair, Flash, that is because Josh is the only person who wants to play a rogue on a semi-regular basis and he is equally bad at everything.
On Weapon Finesse; in my houserules the feat no longer exists. All light weapons and all weapons that say they can be used with Weapon Finesse instead gain the finesse keyword, allowing their wielder to use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier when determining their bonus to hit.
I advocate having Power Attack built into the system with a feat that improves its efficiency. Much like how you can fight defensively, but if you take Combat Expertise you get a better trade-off of penalty to hit and bonus to AC (though you can use those in conjunction).
To be fair, Flash, that is because Josh is the only person who wants to play a rogue on a semi-regular basis and he is equally bad at everything.1- yesTrapfinding- needs tweeking but makes a use for rogues sadly their only use.You mean trapfinding is the only thing that rogues do well in your group?
Lol. I was going to say "If traps are the only thing your rogue is good at..."