I want to build a quadruped Eidolon that can only do one thing. Charge into enemies and trample them to death (if they haven't died from the charge already). It goes for a single powerful attack, not multiple attacks, using Vital Strike and such.
As I was reading the Summoner (I have never played one so far) a few questions arose.
1) Does a quadruped Eidolon with Bite evolution (that already has a bite, which means you get 1 1/2 your Strength as damage) qualify for the Furious Focus feat?
The feat requires a weapon wielded with two hands. With the bite evolution the Eidolon deals damage as if he would use a 2-handed weapon. Does that count?
2) For flavor reasons (I want to make the Eidolon look like a Rhino) can I change the Bite to a Gore attack?
I noticed the Gore Evolution costs 2 points while the Bite evolution only 1, yet they both deal the same damage. Is the extra cost because usually you get the gore in addition to the bite attack that most Eidolons have?
Or does the Gore have an advantage the Bite does not have?
3) The evolutions that grow the Eidolon don't mention that the damage of their natural attacks increase as is normal for size increases (if it could wield a weapon it would wield a bigger one after all).
Do natural attack damage dice increase when I progress my Eidolon to large/huge?
4) I think I read this one already somewhere, but I can't combine Power Attack and Vital Strike right? (Or was that Spring Attack and Vital Strike?)
5) Is there something similar to the Powerful Charge feat from 3.5 in Pathfinder? (Gives you 2d6 extra damage when you make a charge attack). I have checked but haven't found something yet.
6) Is it legal to increase the damage of a natural attack with an evolution and a feat? I never states one would exclude the other.
I want to build a quadruped Eidolon that can only do one thing. Charge into enemies and trample them to death (if they haven't died from the charge already). It goes for a single powerful attack, not multiple attacks, using Vital Strike and such.
As I was reading the Summoner (I have never played one so far) a few questions arose.1) Does a quadruped Eidolon with Bite evolution (that already has a bite, which means you get 1 1/2 your Strength as damage) qualify for the Furious Focus feat?
The feat requires a weapon wielded with two hands. With the bite evolution the Eidolon deals damage as if he would use a 2-handed weapon. Does that count?
No. The fact that the bite has the same Strength-based damage bonus is irrelevant; a bite is not a two-handed weapon. If you want to do this, ask your GM to house rule it.
2) For flavor reasons (I want to make the Eidolon look like a Rhino) can I change the Bite to a Gore attack?
I noticed the Gore Evolution costs 2 points while the Bite evolution only 1, yet they both deal the same damage. Is the extra cost because usually you get the gore in addition to the bite attack that most Eidolons have?
Or does the Gore have an advantage the Bite does not have?
The only difference I can think of is that Gore's damage type is always piercing, while Bite does all three. This is usually a disadvantage, though, not an advantage. Also, Gore doesn't give the 1.5x Strength bonus, another disadvantage. I can't think of any advantages.
Bite doesn't specifically require a mouth, so I'm forced to assume that the mouth comes with the evolution; therefore, I don't see any requirements problem. Still, what you're asking for is house rule, as otherwise there is no way to get Gore for 1 point (as there is no way to trade in your base form's Bite).
My best guess for why Gore costs 2 points is that it's intended to be taken in addition to Bite, not to replace it. The ability to have both warrants the extra cost. If you were a biped eidolon, it would be a bad deal unless you bought Bite separately.
3) The evolutions that grow the Eidolon don't mention that the damage of their natural attacks increase as is normal for size increases (if it could wield a weapon it would wield a bigger one after all).
Do natural attack damage dice increase when I progress my Eidolon to large/huge?
The natural attacks themselves mention the increase in damage for size. Look under Bite, Gore, et al.
4) I think I read this one already somewhere, but I can't combine Power Attack and Vital Strike right? (Or was that Spring Attack and Vital Strike?)
I can never remember this one. Pretty sure you can do the former but not the latter. I am not certain of this.
5) Is there something similar to the Powerful Charge feat from 3.5 in Pathfinder? (Gives you 2d6 extra damage when you make a charge attack). I have checked but haven't found something yet.
There's a monster ability for it (in Universal Monster Rules), but I don't know of any feat for it. There is the Spirited Charge feat, but that requires mounted combat.
6) Is it legal to increase the damage of a natural attack with an evolution and a feat? I never states one would exclude the other.
I don't see why not, provided your GM is okay with Bestiary feats. Improved Natural Attack should do fine. Remember that you can only take it once per natural attack.
I want to build a quadruped Eidolon that can only do one thing. Charge into enemies and trample them to death (if they haven't died from the charge already). It goes for a single powerful attack, not multiple attacks, using Vital Strike and such.
As I was reading the Summoner (I have never played one so far) a few questions arose.1) Does a quadruped Eidolon with Bite evolution (that already has a bite, which means you get 1 1/2 your Strength as damage) qualify for the Furious Focus feat?
The feat requires a weapon wielded with two hands. With the bite evolution the Eidolon deals damage as if he would use a 2-handed weapon. Does that count?No. The fact that the bite has the same Strength-based damage bonus is irrelevant; a bite is not a two-handed weapon. If you want to do this, ask your GM to house rule it.
2) For flavor reasons (I want to make the Eidolon look like a Rhino) can I change the Bite to a Gore attack?
I noticed the Gore Evolution costs 2 points while the Bite evolution only 1, yet they both deal the same damage. Is the extra cost because usually you get the gore in addition to the bite attack that most Eidolons have?
Or does the Gore have an advantage the Bite does not have?The only difference I can think of is that Gore's damage type is always piercing, while Bite does all three. This is usually a disadvantage, though, not an advantage. Also, Gore doesn't give the 1.5x Strength bonus, another disadvantage. I can't think of any advantages.
Bite doesn't specifically require a mouth, so I'm forced to assume that the mouth comes with the evolution; therefore, I don't see any requirements problem. Still, what you're asking for is house rule, as otherwise there is no way to get Gore for 1 point (as there is no way to trade in your base form's Bite).
My best guess for why Gore costs 2 points is that it's intended to be taken in addition to Bite, not to replace it. The ability to have both warrants the extra cost. If you were a...
On far as bite vs gore, if you have ever tried to build a summoner it's pretty clear what it is for.
Initially to get improved bite you need 2 evolution points, this is always better then gore. Let us say you wanted a second bite attack, you would first need to add a head (2 points), and a bite (1 evolution point). Now you have an attack that is equal to gore but for 3 points instead of 2. At this point you could make it better then gore by spending a 4th point to improve your second bite.
Gore is not meant to be a replacement to bite, it is meant to be an additional primary natural attack so you can use evolution points on other things afterwards.
No. The fact that the bite has the same Strength-based damage bonus is irrelevant; a bite is not a two-handed weapon. If you want to do this, ask your GM to house rule it.......
1) Okay. Would be house rule.
2) So a gore is a weaker version of bite in any case. That should making bargaining with the GM simple.
3) Ah I see now. I read it, but totally forgot about it when I came to the Enlarging Evolution.
4) Next poster has got this. ^^
5) Those two I found as well. Sadly no feat.
6) Since my Eidolon will only have 1 attack that is easy ^^
You cannot combine a charge and a vital strike, since vital strike is an attack action and charge is a full-round action.......
Oh right, that's what was forbidden. Charge and Vital Strike can't be combined. Thanks.
And don't worry about the usefulness. It is for a special occasion :)
On far as bite vs gore, if you have ever tried to build a summoner it's pretty clear what it is for.
Initially to get improved bite you need 2 evolution points, this is always better then gore. Let us say you wanted a second bite attack, you would first need to add a head (2 points), and a bite (1 evolution point). Now you have an attack that is equal to gore but for 3 points instead of 2. At this point you could make it better then gore by spending a 4th point to improve your second bite.
Gore is not meant to be a replacement to bite, it is meant to be an additional primary natural attack so you can use evolution points on other things afterwards.
But if I just use the Bite attack and simply call them Gore in-game (cause I won't add any other attacks anyway) it should not be a problem.
And if I swap bite with gore for the basic character, and swap bite and gore in the evolution tree (so that bite would suddenly cost 2 points) everything should stay the same balance wise and the attacks have just different names and flavors.
On far as bite vs gore, if you have ever tried to build a summoner it's pretty clear what it is for.
Initially to get improved bite you need 2 evolution points, this is always better then gore. Let us say you wanted a second bite attack, you would first need to add a head (2 points), and a bite (1 evolution point). Now you have an attack that is equal to gore but for 3 points instead of 2. At this point you could make it better then gore by spending a 4th point to improve your second bite.
Gore is not meant to be a replacement to bite, it is meant to be an additional primary natural attack so you can use evolution points on other things afterwards.
But if I just use the Bite attack and simply call them Gore in-game (cause I won't add any other attacks anyway) it should not be a problem.
And if I swap bite with gore for the basic character, and swap bite and gore in the evolution tree (so that bite would suddenly cost 2 points) everything should stay the same balance wise and the attacks have just different names and flavors.
I hope I understand what you are saying - You want to call a bite 'gore' for flavor reasons and have a 'gore' that does str x1.5 damage? I'd advise against this simply because it is confusing. Realize that bites are more special then just damage as well. Bite's can get additional properties like Trip that Gore attacks can't.
If I was your DM and if it was something that you VERY STRONGLY wanted for flavor reasons I'd probably allow it because I think I could handle it. However, I'd also add restrictions like you can't get the trip or grapple properties added to your special 'gore'. I'd be doing a very careful audit of your Eidolon every time you level as well.
Once again my advice is to not do this and save everyone a minor headache, Summoners are confusing enough as it is. :)
Thank you. I didn't realize this was so much of a problem as I am basically downgrading my attack.
Anyway. The thing I want to use it for is a bit of a special case more fitting for homebrew, but I'll give a short summary for those interested.
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In an Adventure I GM I want to bring Nex and his fleshforges into play. Bad guy gains access to one and creates a monster (Eidolon-like). I will have some other templates as well to make it too dangeorus for the hero's to beat directly.
My plan is that they then use the fleshforge to build a second creature to fight the first one. They would build it like an Eidolon.
Since I have some number crunchers in my group this in game - out of game part should be fun for them :3
That is mainly why I wanted to brush up my knowledge on the rules.
I do want to play a summoner now too, now that I have read about him some... but that has to wait ^^