Okay, so one of my friends is starting up a low-magic steampunk sort of campaign, and he is recommending that each PC have at least one way of dealing ranged damage. Personally, I've become obsessed with the idea of the Sword + Pistol combination but I have one major problem.
Viability.
I'm thinking of ways in which this could work but, while I can get it working mechanically by level 7, it just won't have the damage or utility to be of great use to my party.
I'm starting at level 4, the buy in is 20 points, and my race must be human.
My idea was 5 levels of gun slinger in two-weapon fighter archetype for the rest of my levels. While this gives me decent damage with my pistol in main hand, and a short sword in my offhand. My damage with the pistol would be average, for a gunslinger, but I would be taking -3 to hit, rather than -1 (two weapon fighting + rapid shot), for an extra possible 1d6+1 or 2 damage.
Anyone have any suggestions, or am I just trying to make the impossible.
Yes, the campaign has guns wide-spread through it. They are counted as martial weapons.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---ca valier-archetypes/musketeer
Might want to start here.
The cavalier class would go to waste. It also does not provide me with enough feats to get the Sword and Pistol feat, which is what I would base my character around.
Weapon Finesse + agile weapon quality, then? It would depend on how soon you could afford a +2 weapon, I suppose...
I would definitely be looking for an agile short sword when level 7 rolled around.
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You need a ton of feats to make this sort of switch hitter viable. Add in the feat and/or MAD tax on having Dex as your primary attribute, with a need to keep Wisdom up to provide Grit, and you're hurting. I think the best option is something in the Gunslinger/Fighter realm, like this:
Race: Human
Traits: Reactionary, Highlander
Ability scores:
STR 10
DEX 19 (+1 @ 4th, 12th, 16th, 20th)
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 15 (+1 @ 8th)
CHA 8
Level - Class (Feats/Class Abilities):
1 - Gunslinger (Deadly Aim, Weapon Finesse)
2 - Fighter (Quick Draw)
3 - Fighter (Weapon Focus - Rapier, Weapon Focus - Pistol)
4 - Fighter
5 - Fighter (Weapon Specialization - Rapier, Weapon Specialization - Pistol)
6 - Fighter (Weapon Training +1 - Firearms)
7 - Fighter (Piranha Strike, Point Blank Shot)
8 - Fighter
9 - Fighter (Improved Critical - Rapier, Precise Shot)
10 - Fighter (Weapon Training +2 - Firearms, Weapon Training +1 - Light Blades)
11 - Fighter (Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Reload - Pistol)
12 - Fighter
13 - Fighter (Greater Weapon Specialization - Rapier, Greater Weapon Specialization - Pistol)
14 - Fighter (Weapon Training +3 - Firearms, Weapon Training +2 - Light Blades, Weapon Training +1 - Whatever)
15 - Fighter (Bullseye Shot, Vital Strike)
16 - Gunslinger
17 - Gunslinger (Improved Vital Strike)
18 - Gunslinger (Greater Vital Strike)
19 - Gunslinger (Devastating Strike)
20 - Gunslinger
Starting at 4th level you'll want a +1 rapier, +1 mithral chain shirt, and a masterwork pistol.
I didn't go revolver because the cost (4000 gp) makes it prohibitive to start with. You can swap out the Pistol-related feats for their Revolver equivalents if you want, but understand that you'll get no benefit from them until you can procure the Revolver.
With the idea of a pistol and reload times, I went the Vital Strike route to provide extra damage on ranged attacks. Rapier depends on critical hits and the Agile weapon property which you need to pick up as soon as you can.
The Fighter's Weapon Training and access to Greater Weapon Specialization, with Devastating Strike, Gun Training and Deadly Aim, means that at 19th level your single-shot damage with a pistol is 1d8 (Base) + 3d8 (Vital Strike) + 6 (Gun Training) + 4 (Weapon Spec) + 3 (Weapon Training) + 6 (Devastating Strike) + 12 (Deadly Aim) = 4d8 + 31, which averages to 49 points. It won't win any DPR Olympics, but it's respectable. Magic guns and stat bump items to Dex will, of course, increase this.
For the Rapier, you're getting all the same benefits (Piranha Strike instead of Deadly Aim) when you're forced to take a single attack action, but if you can full-round attack you're looking at 5 attack rolls with 15-20 crit range and a good chance of hitting for an extra 1d6 + a lot.
After writing all this up, it occurred to me that, since you can relegate the guns to touch attacks, it might be better to go with a Strength build...
Thanks for the build, but unfortunately you forgot one very important part.
The Sword and Pistol Feat.
Also, I am looking for viability between the levels of 4-12ish, not a guide that will show me how to become a god slayer.
Have you considered gunslinger/alchemist for the explosive missile discovery or would that be out of flavor for low magic steampunk?
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I didn't forget it, I just didn't think it useful. It sounds neat, but the feats to make two-weapon fighting work with mixed weapons of any kind are just too expensive. Plus it has a requirement of Snap Shot which is pointless if you're already holding a melee weapon in your other hand.
All Sword and Pistol does is keep you from provoking for ranged attacks. You can avoid that easily enough by taking a 5-foot step or taking a full attack with your melee weapon instead.
And I don't think of this as a god slayer build -- I wouldn't go sword and pistol combo for that regardless.
If you're dead-set on using Sword and Pistol, then lose Quick Draw, Improved Critical and Weapon Spec in the rapier. Move Point Blank Shot up to level 2, take Rapid Shot at level 3, Snap Shot at level 5, TWF at level 7, and finally Sword and Pistol at level 9. You might consider swapping Rapid Reload and Weapon Spec with the pistol.
TWF is nigh-impossible to pull off firearms due to the reloading restrictions unless you can afford to spring the 4000 gold for a revolver. A 4th level character should have about 6k to play with, so if you want to go that route you can. Don't forget to buy a lot of ammo.
Edit: forgot one thing. Since you're losing Imp Crit you can swap the rapier for any other melee weapon you prefer.
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Thorkull:
-Why did you pick Deadly Aim? It doesn't work for touch attacks.
-Is Quick Draw that necessary? Is that needed for reloading?
-Are you allowed to multiclass Gunslinger/Fighter? Isn't the Gunslinger a variant fighter that doesn't allow the multiclassing?
I would feel fine putting the pistol in the off-hand. You are hitting on touch ac, which is woefully low, and you have a high dexterity. It's very difficult to *not* have fabulous accuracy with any kind of firearm in this game, as long as you pick your targets well.
Correct me if im wrong, but I thought you couldn't take fighter levels with gunslinger. Just like cavalier and samurai, or ninja and rogue.
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Thorkull:
-Why did you pick Deadly Aim? It doesn't work for touch attacks.
It does for firearms. Read the firearms rules.
-Are you allowed to multiclass Gunslinger/Fighter? Isn't the Gunslinger a variant fighter that doesn't allow the multiclassing?
Not any more. The first version was, but they changed it radically enough that it's now it's own Base Class.
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Thorkull:
-Why did you pick Deadly Aim? It doesn't work for touch attacks.
-Is Quick Draw that necessary? Is that needed for reloading?
-Are you allowed to multiclass Gunslinger/Fighter? Isn't the Gunslinger a variant fighter that doesn't allow the multiclassing?I would feel fine putting the pistol in the off-hand. You are hitting on touch ac, which is woefully low, and you have a high dexterity. It's very difficult to *not* have fabulous accuracy with any kind of firearm in this game, as long as you pick your targets well.
As others have stated, Deadly Aim works just fine with firearms, and the Gunslinger is no longer considered a variant fighter... Although those are not things I'd thought of.
Quick Draw is extremely useful anytime you're looking at a multiple-weapon build, plus it makes the Gunslinger Initiative deed pretty sweet.
And, yeah, my build presumes the firearm in the offhand (more historically accurate for this style of combat).
Honestly the sword and pistol feat is largely lame and useless. You can get the exact same effects (and more) easier with other feats, from point blank mastery to deft shootist.
Now the idea of a sword and pistol using martial character is great and can be done, however the feat isn't worth it, especially considering how long it takes to get.
I would suggest using a short sword in your off hand to keep the penalties as low as possible.
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Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions regarding Fighter/Gunslinger and Deadly Aim.
It does seem very strange that Deadly Aim still has it's requirements about touch attacks now, given that the 'touch attack all the time' weapon is allowed access. Who does the 'no deadly aim touch' rule apply to? Scorching Ray spells? Weird.
firearms do not touch attack, they just target touch AC (weird difference I know)
I am playing a character who uses a sword and a revolver. I have no feats to make this work in conjunction, I just use the revolver if they are far away, and the sword if they are close up. I feel this is the best way of doing it.