Hey guys..
I'm planing on trying out the Cavalier, and I have some difficulties sorting out the math on the stated subject.
Example:
I am a halfling Cavalier on a riding dog. My char is a 1-hit-trick-pony.. meaning maximized for damage on a charge with a lance. I have mounted combat and Ride-By-Attack.
Scenario: 1
Me and my group faces 6 orcs who are 30 feet away. They are clustered but there's a nothing between us, aka free line of sight, and no difficult terrain. I lose the initiative rool, and the GM (knowing that I always charge - as this is my build) readies an action to move a 5 ft. step and hit me when i am 10 ft. from the orc, thereby closing the distance before i can finish my charge. Now when he's done with that, do I get to finish my charge if I move on with the Ride-By-Attack? Charge quote: You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent doesn't state the space has to be in front of me, and the closest space is now when he is behind me. There is no Facing rule in pathfinder as I recall.
Scenario: 2
Same as before, but GM moves his orc out of my reach away from his fellow orcs. Do I get to follow him when my turn continues, as Charge no longer states that the charge has to be in a straight line (see quote from scenario 1) but only Charge quote: Directly toward the designated opponent.
Scenario: 3
Same as before, but GM moves his orc out of my reach and in between his fellow orcs with his ready action. When I reach the square where I was planning to hit him and he evades, his comrade is reachable. Do I get to name the new orc as my target when my turn continues?
Finally:
As stated, charge doesn't have to be in a straight line, but Ride-By-Attack does Feat quote: continuing the straight line of the charge. So following example 2, can I follow the orc with the charge and continue onwards in a straight line from there?
If none of the above is possible, the class is utterly broken, as a simple ready action can circumvent everything :(
I's welcome advice, or ideas on the matter :)
1. I don't understand the situation presented, where is he moving during his 5 foot step and where is he 10 ft away from you? If he is 10ft away you can still hit him regardless of what square he is in. If he moves right next to you, you get an AoO anyways.
2. This is an interesting argument. There's nothing RAW that says otherwise, but since charging is basically an essential class feature to Cavalier (and most martial classes), being able to continuously "ready" an action to move out of being able to be attacked and suffering no penalty (since initiative always stays ahead of the Cav) is perverting the RAI imo.
3. There is nothing saying you can't, so you probably can. Probably up to your DM, but that would be a dick move to say no.
4. It says continuing, so it definitely applies after the attack, but I think Paizo is assuming that you are moving in a straight line the whole way.
This is another one of those things the rules aren't very clear about. So it would probably be mostly up to the DM. If he says NO to all that though, then you'd have recourse to argue the DM is intentionally trying to nerf your class.
I charge towards the orc, when I am 10 ft. away from him I can hit him with my lance since it has reach. BUT the GM has readied for me to get into that 10 feet reach and takes a 5 foot step towards me. Now i'm 5 ft. from the orc and can't attack him since it's a reach weapon. The ready action from GM does not provoke AoO since it's only a 5 foot step.
When I move on with my Ride-By-Attack I will eventually reach the 10 ft. required for the lance to reach, but the orc will now be behind me. So this is where I reach the closest space from which I can attack the opponent.
Ride-By-Attack does not provoke AoO either. So do I get to hit him or not? :)
Scenario: 1
Me and my group faces 6 orcs who are 30 feet away. They are clustered but there's a nothing between us, aka free line of sight, and no difficult terrain. I lose the initiative rool, and the GM (knowing that I always charge - as this is my build) readies an action to move a 5 ft. step and hit me when i am 10 ft. from the orc, thereby closing the distance before i can finish my charge. Now when he's done with that, do I get to finish my charge if I move on with the Ride-By-Attack? Charge quote: You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent doesn't state the space has to be in front of me, and the closest space is now when he is behind me. There is no Facing rule in pathfinder as I recall.
Sorry, the "may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent." already covered which way you can move during the charge. The orc got inside your lance reach and you are SOL. "may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent." Away isn't directly toward. The orc's ready brought him too close for you to attack with your reach weapon. Ride by lets you keep moving AFTER you make the attack :) so until you make the attack, you are still bound by all of charge;s restrictions. And if your are unable to attack, if you do keep going the orc will get the AoO on you since you were not able to attack the orc, a requirement of Ride By Attack's No AoO clause. "You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack."
3>No, you chose to charge a "designated opponent"
If none of the above is possible, the class is utterly broken, as a simple ready action can circumvent...
Mounted combat has enough rules issues where it pretty much exists only as long as the DM is willing to let it exist. Heck, look really close at the rules for ride by attack. Do you see anything that actually lets you move through the person's space you charged? There isn't. This is important because you don't get to pick your charge path.
To charge an opponent, you have to move to the closest space from which you can attack them, if there is more than one square that would qualify, you never get to choose which space you charge to, it is randomly determined which square is closest. You'll find this in the rules right after the diagonal movement rules.
paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html Movement, Position, And Distance... Measuring Distance...
"Closest Creature: When it's important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die."
As you may have noticed, while there are many ways one can get very powerful attacks based on "charging", there are also many annoying ways to stop charges in their tracks.
Don't charge someone with a ready. Get out your bow and shoot them if they are waiting for you. A one trick pony should always be ready to learn some new tricks.
Hmm.. well that kinda sucks. Why make a class that's unplayable :( I get that the mobs can't do s*!$ but wait for me to attack, if they ready, which is nice for the rest of my party.. but that stale mate for me and the boss fight is unbearable as the main damage dealer.
Guess I have to grab "Lunge" too.. then problem should be solved
:)
Hey guys.. thanks for the responses :)
First off, I am aware the most of it is the DM's call. The thing is, the DM and I have played together for more then 20 years.. so he knows how I like to make power builds and find loopholes (as he LLOOVVEESSS to make really tough encounters, so it's kinda needed to survive in his campaigns).
So the reason I ask here, is because I don't have the time (due to work, RL issues etc. to go through the rule set with tweesers and a magnifying glass) anymore, and to be frank, people are rather good at reaching a consensus here, so we often refer to the ruling most people can agree on.
And in this case, I justet wanted to "do my homework" before making the character. Because I know that the minute he gets my 3d6+gazillion damage to his main boss.. he'll spend every waking minute trying to neutralize that threat (It's kinda the dance we do he he). I make a paladin to smite his evil bosses, and he makes a antapaladin to smite me.. oh well.
Just wanted to know if I missed anything, as i stated, if a Cavalier can't get to charge the class is broken.
Scenario: 1
I do not believe you can separate the point where you arrive in the square from the point where you attack them. They happen at the same time. Doing it any other way can lead to a lot of silliness.
This is especially true with a lance, because its aimed down off the horse pointed at your target from the start of the charge. Someone is stepping INTO the point of the lance while its leveled at them and comming right for their heart on a speeding horse to get away from you?
The rules also state that you must move directly towards your opponent. You cannot move away from them to charge them with the lance. If someone used a move action to try to move away from you and you had a melee weapon you could chase them.
You may want a spiked shield or spiked armor for this. If the dm insists on running it that way.. ok. The mook moves towards you. Charge attack with the spiked armor.
Scenario: 2
Even more silliness if you allow this. If your DM plays it this way, simply declare that you hold an action to 5 foot step away from your enemy and whack them whenever they start to swing at you.
Scenario: 3
Same as before, but GM moves his orc out of my reach and in between his fellow orcs with his ready action. When I reach the square where I was planning to hit him and he evades, his comrade is reachable. Do I get to name the new orc as my target when my turn continues?
No, you have to charge someone specific.
Finally:
As stated, charge doesn't have to be in a straight line, but Ride-By-Attack does Feat quote: continuing the straight line of the charge. So following example 2, can I follow the orc with the charge and continue onwards in a straight line from there?
You SHOULD be able to. That's the intent. They've said that the ride by attack rules (written with the 3.0 attack charge rules) are slightly borked with the 3.5/pathfinder charge rules.
If none of the above is possible, the class is utterly broken, as a simple ready action can circumvent everything :(
You can also do it to any melee character, charging or not. Declare your held action to be attacking and 5 foot stepping away as soon as someone tries to swing at you. They start the swing, but you're not there to be swung at, so they automatically miss. It can take a 20th level barbarian 3 or so rounds to finish off a kobold this way if the barbarian doesn't just get fed up with it and throw the axe.
You can also do it to any melee character, charging or not. Declare your held action to be attacking and 5 foot stepping away as soon as someone tries to swing at you. They start the swing, but you're not there to be swung at, so they automatically miss. It can take a 20th level barbarian 3 or so rounds to finish off a kobold this way if the barbarian doesn't just get fed up with it and throw the axe.
"The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks."
Barbarian misses his first swing. Then he takes his 5' step between attacks, and takes his other 3 attacks.