First time Musket Master 1/Lore Warden 7build
I roll to shoot giant mantis I roll a 3 due to alchemical cartridges and the musket misfire range, I don't have any grit points left.
next round
I roll again thinking what are the chances? I roll a 11 I hit
next round I feel lucky and roll another 3 my +1 musket explodes? right I had 1d12+7 damage due to delay aim and know thy enemy.
so by RAW I roll damage do i add all the modifiers? like Deadly aim? or Know thy enemy? I make a reflex save of DC12 or for half damage and it says squares 1-2 how do I determine what squares it explodes at.?
so now I have a blown up +1 musket i can spend a hour after battle fixing it with the gunsmithing feat?
what am I missing besides really great rolls
First time Musket Master 1/Lore Warden 7build
I roll to shoot giant mantis I roll a 3 due to alchemical cartridges and the musket misfire range, I don't have any grit points left.
next round
I roll again thinking what are the chances? I roll a 11 I hitnext round I feel lucky and roll another 3 my +1 musket explodes? right I had 1d12+7 damage due to delay aim and know thy enemy.
so by RAW I roll damage do i add all the modifiers? like Deadly aim? or Know thy enemy? I make a reflex save of DC12 or for half damage and it says squares 1-2 how do I determine what squares it explodes at.?
so now I have a blown up +1 musket i can spend a hour after battle fixing it with the gunsmithing feat?
what am I missing besides really great rolls
Apparently your GM needs to get the critical fumble deck for more amusement around the table...
All joking aside, RAW says whoever is in the blast area takes damage as if shot by the firearm, not all damage that would have been done if the roll succeeded. So I would just make you take the 1d12 damage + any misc damage from the ammo being used. Not your deadly aim or know thy enemy damage. As for the explosion placement, you choose a corner of your square as the point of the explosion and then for a musket the radius is 5 feet. So every square that touches that corner is in the explosion, including you. The "1-2" is the misfire range for the base musket, the "(5' radius)" is for the size of the explosion and the rules for the placement are in the misfire explanation.
Thanks,
then after the embarrassing "misfire" how do i make my gun not blown up? just spend an hour gunsmithing.
Thanks,
then after the embarrassing "misfire" how do i make my gun not blown up? just spend an hour gunsmithing.
A quick clear (level 1 deed) will remove the broken condition as a standard action (need to have a grit point in your pool) as long as it was from a misfire or using the gunsmith feat as you said. Basically you probably should never go below 1 grit point due to abilities being keyed to having grit available, the only time I would suggest using your "last" grit point is on an attack that will return it back.
Thanks, I was under the idea that once the musket exploded it was unusable until repaired.
in essence you misfire once it gains "broken" then if you misfire again the gun blows up and the gun is unusable and now has the "destroyed" condition?
how do I fix the second condition.If one exists
Also does magical enchantment for my Musket bring the misfire count down at all?
A quick clear (level 1 deed) will remove the broken condition as a standard action (need to have a grit point in your pool) as long as it was from a misfire or using the gunsmith feat as you said. Basically you probably should never go below 1 grit point due to abilities being keyed to having grit available, the only time I would suggest using your "last" grit point is on an attack that will return it back.Thanks,
then after the embarrassing "misfire" how do i make my gun not blown up? just spend an hour gunsmithing.
I only have a 12 Wis so only one Grit point...and I used it to extend the range. I am now Seriously Considering getting 2 more levels in musket master for the ability to reload as a swift action
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Thanks, I was under the idea that once the musket exploded it was unusable until repaired.
in essence you misfire once it gains "broken" then if you misfire again the gun blows up and the gun is unusable and now has the "destroyed" condition?
how do I fix the second condition.If one exists
Also does magical enchantment for my Musket bring the misfire count down at all?
make whole might be able to fix broken. you may just be S.O.L.
MAgic doesnt effect the misfire chance, except for the specific enhancement that only does that
Thanks, I was under the idea that once the musket exploded it was unusable until repaired.
in essence you misfire once it gains "broken" then if you misfire again the gun blows up and the gun is unusable and now has the "destroyed" condition?
how do I fix the second condition.If one exists
Also does magical enchantment for my Musket bring the misfire count down at all?
make whole might be able to fix broken. you may just be S.O.L.
MAgic doesnt effect the misfire chance, except for the specific enhancement that only does that
think this here will fix it either make whole or Gunsmithing.
Misfires: If the natural result of your attack roll falls within a firearm’s misfire value, that shot misses, even if you would have otherwise hit the target. When a firearm misfires, it gains the broken condition. While it has the broken condition, it suffers the normal disadvantages that broken weapons do, and its misfire value increases by 4 unless the wielder has gun training in the particular type of firearm (see Gunslinger). In that case, the misfire value increases by 2 instead of 4.Early Firearms: If an early firearm with the broken condition misfires again, it explodes. When a nonmagical firearm explodes, the weapon is destroyed. Magical firearms are wrecked, which means they can’t fire until they are fully restored (which requires either the make whole spell or the Gunsmithing feat). When a gun explodes, pick one corner of your square—the explosion creates a burst from that point of origin. Each firearm has a burst size noted in parentheses after its misfire value. Any creature within this burst (including the firearm’s wielder) takes damage as if it had been hit by the weapon—a DC 12 Reflex save halves this damage.
One grit point is rough, in the next level or two I'd suggest grabbing the extra grit feat. As you've experienced, a misfire can ruin your day and delaying another feat might make the character a little more enjoyable. Instead of holding onto your single grit point for when a misfire occurs all adventuring day, having a point or two to spend at will on other deeds might be less frustrating. That first misfire gives you a penalty to attacks (because of the broken conditon) and jumps your misfire chance to 1-6 base (+ alchemical mod) so you are looking at a 1 in 3 chance of blowing up your musket if you don't have 1 point of grit to use quick clear to fix it.
Moral of the story? Unless you can afford a secondary musket, always have quick clear available. Your adventuring life will be better.
Yeah, if it's destroyed, quick clear won't cut it. Smith it or make whole.
Edit: Technically, I don't know that smithing it will even work. Smithing can remove the broken condition in an hour. For a destroyed item, it'd work the same as any Craft check to restore a destroyed item--which is basically GM's call, as Craft doesn't have rules on the subject. Clearly it was intended to work (per the text under Early Firearms above), but it isn't clear how.
Yeah, if it's destroyed, quick clear won't cut it. Smith it or make whole.
Edit: Technically, I don't know that smithing it will even work. Smithing can remove the broken condition in an hour. For a destroyed item, it'd work the same as any Craft check to restore a destroyed item--which is basically GM's call, as Craft doesn't have rules on the subject. Clearly it was intended to work (per the text under Early Firearms above), but it isn't clear how.
I would say it takes 1 day per 1000gp cost of the weapon as stated under the crafting firearms part of the gunsmithing feat. For the wording, in my game I would go with making you work a number of days according to the base cost of the musket weapon (not including magical enhancement costs), but by RAW total price is what it would go off of. They don't seem to be suggesting that you are remaking the weapon totally, just fixing it physically so it can be made to work again using the parts left after the explosion. I would also make you pay half the base cost of the musket in "repairs" per the crafting rules (you are remaking the weapon after explosion and need new parts), but again that probably isn't RAW which would probably require you to cough up half the price of the total weapon cost. To me it seems to imply that you are salvaging the magic from your weapon after it explodes and I don't like the idea of double charging for it if that is the intent. Had it been a mundane weapon you would have lost it totally. So I'm taking the middle of the road with charging the mundane cost to restore your destroyed magical weapon, that way there is a cost associated with it to deter people from blowing up their gun and slowing the pace of the adventure down with repeated downtime.
So it looks like if a magical firearm with more than a single enhancement bonus blows up, probably looking at roughly a week downtime while you fix it. All the more reason to never let it happen.
What is the official condition of the fire arm? i read it as still broken but unable to fire unless made whole or repaired with a days of work using gunsmithing. it is magical a +1 sword in theory never dulls and a +3 sword can cut through rock....
let me rephrase this another way how do you read it strictly by RAW
the relevant text is here: it says or the Gunsmithing feat How do I bold?
Early Firearms: If an early firearm with the broken condition misfires again, it explodes. When a nonmagical firearm explodes, the weapon is destroyed. Magical firearms are wrecked, which means they can’t fire until they are fully restored (which requires either the make whole spell or the Gunsmithing feat). When a gun explodes, pick one corner of your square—the explosion creates a burst from that point of origin. Each firearm has a burst size noted in parentheses after its misfire value. Any creature within this burst (including the firearm’s wielder) takes damage as if it had been hit by the weapon—a DC 12 Reflex save halves
What is the official condition of the fire arm? i read it as still broken but unable to fire unless made whole or repaired with a days of work using gunsmithing. it is magical a +1 sword in theory never dulls and a +3 sword can cut through rock....
1st misfire is broken.
2nd misfire is destroyed/wrecked. That is distinctly different than broken.If it is non magical you need to craft/buy a new weapon. If magical you need to fully restore it either from make whole or using the gunsmithing feat. Gunsmithing feat has rules for broken (which don't apply to wrecked) and rules for crafting firearms. My take on it is you can still salvage the magical attributes from the wrecked firearm by using its "parts" in crafting a new weapon. You spend the same amount of gold as if you were crafting the new musket but get to keep the magical enhancements from the gun you wrecked by misfiring twice without resolving the broken condition. You are out the cost of the gun just like a mundane weapon but are not out the additional cost of the magical enhancements.
What is the official condition of the fire arm? i read it as still broken but unable to fire unless made whole or repaired with a days of work using gunsmithing. it is magical a +1 sword in theory never dulls and a +3 sword can cut through rock....1st misfire is broken.
2nd misfire is destroyed/wrecked. That is distinctly different than broken.If it is non magical you need to craft/buy a new weapon. If magical you need to fully restore it either from make whole or using the gunsmithing feat. Gunsmithing feat has rules for broken (which don't apply to wrecked) and rules for crafting firearms. My take on it is you can still salvage the magical attributes from the wrecked firearm by using its "parts" in crafting a new weapon. You spend the same amount of gold as if you were crafting the new musket but get to keep the magical enhancements from the gun you wrecked by misfiring twice without resolving the broken condition. You are out the cost of the gun just like a mundane weapon but are not out the additional cost of the magical enhancements.
Thanks so very much for clearing it up. her eis what I don't understand, this is what I remember of the rules. you can't damage a magical weapon with out at least hitting it with a enchantment greater than its own, I may be wrong I was under the impression that enchanting an item to +1 would make it immune to normal non magic damage. therefore a explosion wouldn't destroy it. ...but a quick search reveals I am wrong. this i amy first Gunslinger and so far i fought one battle and then my gun blew up .........I thought being magic protected me form such things..
Being magic doesn't protect it from exploding. Magic just adjusts hardness and hp totals for the enchanted item. You still follow the normal rules for firearms so the only firearms that won't "blow up" are advanced firearms I believe (different rules for misfire). You should expect at least at least 2 days of downtime and a repair bill of 900 gp to cover the masterwork musket using my calculations/reasoning. Again, always keep 1 grit point for a quick clear so you won't have to deal with this issue.
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Using my house rules, a +1 musket would have 20 hit points, but would take 10 hit points when it misfired, and so would be broken. If it misfires again, it takes another 10 hit points, and is wrecked until repaired with a make whole spell.
The actual rules don't say how much damage a misfire does, just that the first misfire gives firearms (any kind, magic or not) the broken condition, and second destroys/wrecks them.
Unfortunately in the Rules Forum, house rules don't really have a place. Most people here are looking for the RAW (rules as written) for games that are on a bit more of a strict side, like Pathfinder Society play (before the extra restrictions). The rules don't give varying degrees of damage, heck misfired "broken" firearms aren't even damaged they just have that condition due to the game mechanics. Your rules would be much more appropriate in the Advice/Homebrew/Suggestions forums due to the fact they are much more convoluted than the RAW we have on the subject.
The problem with the misfire "broken" actually inflicting damage is the deed "quick clear" resolves the broken condition for free as a standard action (as long as you have a grit point) so you're actually putting more of a penalty on the character by inflicting damage to the weapon arbitrarily. In your game everytime I misfire I actually need to repair my firearm, even if I quick clear it and it ends up fine, it took damage. In a RAW game a misfire just leads to a penalty to hit. Huge difference, in your game a few unlucky rolls could basically destroy the firearm for no good reason because of the arbitrary damage your rule inflicts on it. Whether it was your intention or not, your house rule is just more penalties heaped on a firearm user and extra book keeping for no real good reason.
As a condition "broken" doesn't need damage associated with it, it is just a way for us to measure the status of an item and apply appropriate penalties when it is used. It means that the firearm basically has one foot in the grave.
Also the misfire rules state if a firearm that is "broken" misfires, it explodes. There is no stipulation on where the "broken" condition came from. So RAW does in fact cover the situation of the musket being damaged 12 points by a sunder attempt (gaining the broken status), being used and misfiring, it ends in an explosion.
In my game, the quick clear deed heals the damage that the misfire condition applied. So, for a non-magical musket it heals 5 points of damage but only if that damage was the result of a misfire.
In my game, it is actually easier to fix a misfired firearm, because the spells 'make whole' and 'mending' can bring the firearm back to above 1/2 their hit points.
Basically, my only house rule is that misfiring and clearing are doing/repairing the damage that the implicitly do with RAW. Because of this I can figure out that a musket that is sundered for 3 points of damage, then misfires (takes 5), and then is sundered again for 4 points of damage, is destroyed. Also, that a musket that has misfired and is subjected a mending spell is no longer broken.
For what it is worth I would be more precise with the wording. Using the term "restore," which in game, typically means removing a status, not healing hit point damage; didn't prompt me to make the leap that quick clear removed damage inflicted. It made me think broken was removed like it is by RAW.
Second, a status can be inflicted without its "typical" reason. Poison can be applied through magic spell and you end up "poisoned," the "staggered" condition can be applied through other means even if you aren't at 0 hit points and last but not least "broken" can be applied to an item that is in pristine non hit point damaged condition. As we are in the completely wrong forums I will leave this subject with saying, you are making the rules more complicated than need be. You are enforcing hit point damage for no good reason (broken condition) and with it making more book keeping. RAW there is no damage being done for "broken," implied or otherwise. It is a status effect being applied. If you want to move the discussion to another forum I suppose we can continue there, but as it is this thread has been derailed enough here.